So, George and Tony, do you still think toppling Saddam was a good idea?

[Hampster Gull]

But the same bottom line, war, is driving it.
No one thing will solve it, all the time that bottom line remains a constant.

I won't argue with that Stat Brother.

 

[Mr Bridger]

Great , another 70 page binfest with the usual suspects hitting the ball over the net back and forth, with Mustafa as umpire.

Roll on the Arsenal game.

 

[symyjym]

George Bush: "God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq."

Tony Blair: "Prayed to God when deciding whether or not to send UK troops to Iraq."

The West has its own fair share of lunatic and dangerous leaders.

 

[Stat Brother]

I won't argue with that Stat Brother.

You're new here, aren't you!?!!

 

[Hampster Gull]

You're new here, aren't you!?!!

Ha. I have been found out

 

[banjo]

 

[vegster]

I can only speak for the Czech Republic and investment has been made and more global companies have invested in the country but they still live the ways of communism , like a free flat on the edge of the cities , cheap trams into the city centres to work , cheap drink , cigarettes and food , so communism not all that bad , they still love a drop of the old Vodka too Prague is more commercial of course .

Now, in the Czech Republic, you have to pay to be tortured, that's capitalism in action

 

[Soulman]

Well, seems most think it was a mistake to get involved in wars in the Middle East, although it does seem that even some places that the West have not get involved in like to kill, and kill their own kind even.
So to please those who blame the West's involvement, and to please those who do not want us involved, but do not blame the West, and to please those that do not like to see innocent civilians die because of our involvement, and to please those who do not want members of our forces killed......Let the countries in the Middle East get on with it eh. Sorted.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Well, seems most think it was a mistake to get involved in wars in the Middle East, although it does seem that even some places that the West have not get involved in like to kill, and kill their own kind even.
So to please those who blame the West's involvement, and to please those who do not want us involved, but do not blame the West, and to please those that do not like to see innocent civilians die because of our involvement, and to please those who do not want members of our forces killed......Let the countries in the Middle East get on with it eh. Sorted.

What country has the west not got involved in? We have had our sticky finger in most (hell) holes

 

[Soulman]

What country has the west not got involved in? We have had our sticky finger in most (hell) holes

I suppose we are to blame for the slaughtering in Chad, Nigeria, Yemen, Somalia etc, all just happen to have over 90% Muslim population, and killing each other.

As i said, let's leave them to it eh.

 

[beorhthelm]

in the Standard this evening we are reminded that Islam has been at war with Europe for its entire history, with a brief interlude from the late 18th century as we grew up, at which point they went started more asymmetric warfare (guerilla/terrorism). "they" blame thier position in the world on the West dominance, despite being the intellectual leaders once, overlooking they have chosen to stick with religious dogma over reason. one day there will be a reformation and enlightenment moment, but until then we will live with those that refuse to acknowledge the modern world.

 

[el_ciddy]

I seriously doubt they think in these terms at all. Regret, shame etc are merely concepts to be used to appeal or in some way gain favour when necessary for them. Like most leaders.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I suppose we are to blame for the slaughtering in Chad, Nigeria, Yemen, Somalia etc, all just happen to have over 90% Muslim population, and killing each other.

As i said, let's leave them to it eh.

Here's another thing in common that all four countries you mention have:

Chad: Colonised by the French
Nigeria: Colonised by the Brits
Yemen: Colonised by the Ottomans and the Brits
Somalia: Colonised by the Brits and the Italians

It's amazing what trends you can find if you try.

 

[Soulman]

Here's another thing in common that all four countries you mention have in common:

Chad: Colonised by the French
Nigeria: Colonised by the Brits
Yemen: Colonised by the Ottomans and the Brits
Somalia: Colonised by the Brits and the Italians

It's amazing what trends you can find if you try.

Are we going back into centuries past again, i'd best have a seance and see if i can get in touch with some of the people involved and blame them for what is happening right now.

 

[dangull]

The Western intervention in the former Yugoslavia was a big success.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Are we going back into centuries past again, i'd best have a seance and see if i can get in touch with some of the people involved and blame them for what is happening right now.

Aden was a Crown colony until 1963, well within living memory. The Italians were in Somalia until the mid 40s. Nigeria (the whole country) was a British colony until 1960 - again well within living memory.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Your intention, I recall, was to make Iraq a better place for Iraquis. Yup, they're all ecstatically happy now that half their country has been taken over by extremists. And the rest of the world's population is equally ecstatic about the chaos that ISIS has caused.

And as if we hadn't learned a lesson about better the devil you know, off we go to assist with overthrowing Gadaffi. Another important step in creating lasting peace in the Middle East? What has followed Muammar? Chaos and virtual anarchy in Libya.

A big WELL DONE all round. Here's another fine mess you've gotten us into, as Laurel and Hardy would have said.

When will we ever learn to stop interfering in the internal matters of other countries and trying to impose western democracy on those who don't want it.

Rant over .... for the moment.

Sometimes you need to concede that the only thing holding a country together is fear of a particular leader or the consequences of deliberately breaking up the country. Once Tito died in Yugoslavia break-up was inevitable because of the significant ethnic and religious divides between the various nation states that made up that union.

Iraq is similar. The Sunnis and Shiites have never got a long and the Kurds want independence. Only Saddam's iron grip held that country together.

But in both cases they were 'false' countries, inevitably doomed to fall apart. In the case of Iraq if then if the West had never intervened the break-up would have happened as soon as Saddam would have got too old or died. The point is it would have happened sooner or later.

It is ridiculous to think that with no interference from the West these countries would be harmonious, peace-loving and prosperous. Democracy has never flourished in this region, there's always a despot - some good and some bad.

 

[Hampster Gull]

The Western intervention in the former Yugoslavia was a big success.

Good point

 

[Soulman]

Aden was a Crown colony until 1963, well within living memory. The Italians were in Somalia until the mid 40s. Nigeria (the whole country) was a British colony until 1960 - again well within living memory.

Yeah, i suppose so, i mean iv'e lived in this bungalow for nearly 20 years and i still blame the previous owner for not having a gas supply in the kitchen for my gas oven. The 40's and 1960, you mean 56 and 70 years ago.....blimey desperate to blame or what for the troubles TODAY.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Yeah, i suppose so, i mean iv'e lived in this bungalow for nearly 20 years and i still blame the previous owner for not having a gas supply in the kitchen for my gas oven. The 40's and 1960, you mean 56 and 70 years ago.....blimey desperate to blame or what for the troubles TODAY.

Not desperate to blame anyone for anything. Just keen to add a little balance. I'm out. Have fun.