[Food] So far this year we have served more free tap waters than any other drink…..

[hart's shirt]

Free drinks, bottomless refills. Maybe they could also pay you for eating there?

Plenty of successful businesses, chains and hotels offer the aforementioned two within a set price. And walk through any food court in the UAE and you'll find restaurants offering free samples in order to encourage people to give them their custom.

It's surprising that the restaurant in question hasn't considered something similar - perhaps that's a contributing factor as to why they're closing. Perhaps not. It's more likely to be a combinations of issues including current disposable income and market conditions. But because of this they've still got to know their target market's circumstances and price accordingly.

And if there's not enough customers buying from a restaurant in a way that they want in the current market conditions, the fault lies with the restaurant failing to adapt and bring a product attractive enough to the marketplace, not customers. With increased competition through a variety of other options for F&B entertainment and the advent of home delivery, the market will ultimately decide which restaurants stay in business and which don't.

Expecting customers to spend more purely on a charitable basis is delusional.

 

[The Fits]

Then it’s an issue with management of those places. If you are going to a restaurant and eating a full 3 course meal (or the cafe equivalent of a main meal) then sorry but you doing what’s required and putting your money in.

Nobody should have to buy drinks they don’t want to accompany those things when they’ll be spending a lot of money on the food. People should still be free choose what they want to buy.

Pubs are different though, that’s where my soft drink rant comes in. Nobody should be sitting round any drinks for hours. Pubs are for drinking in which is different to restaurants and cafes.

Agree about pubs wholeheartedly. Re restaurants, I’d just ask anyone who is at one to consider buying at least a premium bottle of bottled water, at least one soft each etc. At the end of the day it’s not going to make a huge difference to the bill but for many smaller (and excellent) businesses it DOES make a huge difference.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But people don’t do this.

They literally did last night.

 

[portlock seagull]

They absolutely do.

I have NEVER seen a group of people go into a pub and ask for tap water only (absolutely nothing else) > be charged zero > not to mention be served (bar staff and landlords do not go along with this, because they’d be stupid to do so) > and then sit there all afternoon sipping water. Nor have I ever heard of any such instances from anyone working in the industry.

Sorry, but that is total bull. If it truly has happened then that’s the fault of the landlord. They must be doing ok, and happy to provide

 

[portlock seagull]

They literally did last night.

They ate didn’t they?

 

[The Fits]

Plenty of successful businesses, chains and hotels offer the aforementioned two within a set price. And walk through any food court in the UAE and you'll find restaurants offering free samples in order to encourage people to give them their custom.

It's surprising that the restaurant in question hasn't considered something similar - perhaps that's a contributing factor as to why they're closing. Perhaps not. It's more likely to be a combinations of issues including current disposable income and market conditions. But because of this they've still got to know their target market's circumstances and price accordingly.

And if there's not enough customers buying from a restaurant in a way that they want in the current market conditions, the fault lies with the restaurant failing to adapt and bring a product attractive enough to the marketplace, not customers. With increased competition through a variety of other options for F&B entertainment and the advent of home delivery, the market will ultimately decide which restaurants stay in business and which don't.

Expecting customers to spend more purely on a charitable basis is delusional.

It’s about scale. Any business that gives away freebies can afford to do it.
Smaller (and often excellent) ones aren’t taking the piss. Margins are f***ing right now.

 

[father_and_son]

How can anyone say that the mark up is complete rip off in a sit down restaurant, which has a limited number of covers per night, the profit they make has to pay Rent, rates, heating costs, employee wages, laundry costs etc.
Yes, paying £3 for a soft drink out of a pump at a fast food restaurant (McD's, Burger King, KFC, etc) is rip off, as they will get 100's if not 1000's of orders through per day, when the cost is probably 50p max
What amazes me is that people will not visit restaurants at say £25 a head, low end, but happily pay over the odds for a deliveroo/uber/just eat.

I'll happily pay for good food at quite a severe mark up in a restaurant because I'm paying someone skilled to craft something special just for me. Absolutely understand that this mark up is to cover not just the skilled chef, but the rest of the staff, the rent, the rates, etc. This I have zero issue with. To charge me £3 for a couple of mouthfuls of a soft drink that was zero effort for them is an insult. There was no skill and I've paid for the staff, the rent, the rates in the price of the food. What it is it trying to do is rip people off by lowering the headline price in favour of trying to sneak costs onto my bill.

 

[Cordwainer]

Showing sport is a funny one. I never do it for a number of reasons but the biggest is the shift in sport watching drinkers. Used to be money for all ripe and obviously things like the Euros and World Cup are guaranteed paydays, but things like the Champions League are a total waste of time.

It must be difficult finding a balance that works for all types of customers I guess..seemed to be easier back in the day when pubs were less open plan with different rooms for functions or watching sports etc.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Plenty of successful businesses, chains and hotels offer the aforementioned two within a set price. And walk through any food court in the UAE and you'll find restaurants offering free samples in order to encourage people to give them their custom.

It's surprising that the restaurant in question hasn't considered something similar - perhaps that's a contributing factor as to why they're closing. Perhaps not. It's more likely to be a combinations of issues including current disposable income and market conditions. But because of this they've still got to know their target market's circumstances and price accordingly.

And if there's not enough customers buying from a restaurant in a way that they want in the current market conditions, the fault lies with the restaurant failing to adapt and bring a product attractive enough to the marketplace, not customers. With increased competition through a variety of other options for F&B entertainment and the advent of home delivery, the market will ultimately decide which restaurants stay in business and which don't.

Expecting customers to spend more purely on a charitable basis is delusional.

I disagree. I have spent a lifetime in bars, restaurants and cafes and there’s definitely been a change in attitudes and entitlement over the past few years. People want something for nothing, or little.

And come on, three people, sat in a bar, drinking one bottle of water. They hardly even actually drank it either. Are you seriously telling me the customers are in the clear here?

 

[The Fits]

I have NEVER seen a group of people go into a pub and ask for tap water only (absolutely nothing else) > be charged zero > not to mention be served (bar staff and landlords do not go along with this, because they’d be stupid to do so) > and then sit there all afternoon sipping water. Nor have I ever heard of any such instances from anyone working in the industry.

Sorry, but that is total bull. If it truly has happened then that’s the fault of the landlord. They must be doing ok, and happy to provide

A whole group, it’s rare. Most of the group, very very common. I’ve had 8 pubs/bars over the last ten years and I’m on the floors a lot and it happens all the time. There’s only so much moaning you can do, it stinks the place out when you and your staff have their backs up so I actively avoid a culture of that, but I’d hope the public would have more sense.

It must be difficult finding a balance that works for all types of customers I guess..seemed to be easier back in the day when pubs were less open plan with different rooms for functions or watching sports etc.

A pub I’ve just let go had a separate room with sport and it worked an absolute treat.

 

[Questions]

I disagree. I have spent a lifetime in bars, restaurants and cafes and there’s definitely been a change in attitudes and entitlement over the past few years. People want something for nothing, or little.

And come on, three people, sat in a bar, drinking one bottle of water. They hardly even actually drank it either. Are you seriously telling me the customers are in the clear here?

I remember Jilly Gordon doing a tasting on bottled water on a food and drink programme once.

 

[portlock seagull]

A whole group, it’s rare. Most of the group, very very common. I’ve had 8 pubs/bars over the last ten years and I’m on the floors a lot and it happens all the time. There’s only so much moaning you can do, it stinks the place out when you and your staff have their backs up so I actively avoid a culture of that, but I’d hope the public would have more sense.

A pub I’ve just let go had a separate room with sport and it worked an absolute treat.

Then you are a fool I’m afraid. And part of the problem if you’re condoning such behaviour. People form habits quickly!

 

[hart's shirt]

I disagree. I have spent a lifetime in bars, restaurants and cafes and there’s definitely been a change in attitudes and entitlement over the past few years. People want something for nothing, or little.

And come on, three people, sat in a bar, drinking one bottle of water. They hardly even actually drank it either. Are you seriously telling me the customers are in the clear here?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the entitlement that I'm reading here is an expectation that customers should buy more drinks to help restaurants.

Perhaps they won't. Perhaps they can't afford to. Perhaps the restaurant was lucky that they were there in the first place buying food. Who knows?

Clearly the restaurant were happy for them to remain as they weren't asked to move. Clearly that table wasn't booked for later on.

Another easy initiative to implement could be a minimum cover charge for the table to include costs, service charge and profit margin.

This would discourage lower revenue customers from visiting and eliminate situations like the one happening. Pay enough and it's not an issue.

If the standard of food, drink and service is good enough, then price accordingly. There's a place for both high end and cost-effective options.

But restaurants shouldn't blame customers for their purchasing decisions. The market will decide if what's being offered is attractive enough to buy.

 

[portlock seagull]

I'll happily pay for good food at quite a severe mark up in a restaurant because I'm paying someone skilled to craft something special just for me. Absolutely understand that this mark up is to cover not just the skilled chef, but the rest of the staff, the rent, the rates, etc. This I have zero issue with. To charge me £3 for a couple of mouthfuls of a soft drink that was zero effort for them is an insult. There was no skill and I've paid for the staff, the rent, the rates in the price of the food. What it is it trying to do is rip people off by lowering the headline price in favour of trying to sneak costs onto my bill.

Sorry, but smacks a bit of ‘Price of everything, value of nothing…’ Like listening to my dear mum comparing Costa (‘rip off’) with coffee served at the WI for 20p (by volunteers, in cold parish room, using mellows and coffee mate…)

 

[Pavilionaire]

But sitting in a pub and only drinking water is taking the piss.

Maybe that's the solution. Free tap water, £5 to take a piss.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think part of the problem for pubs is that people seem to drink more water generally these days, with many off us carrying around a water bottle. That habit is carried into the pub.

I agree that this indicates people want healthy and they want cheap. Find such products and promote them better.

 

[Whitechapel]

I disagree. I have spent a lifetime in bars, restaurants and cafes and there’s definitely been a change in attitudes and entitlement over the past few years. People want something for nothing, or little.

And come on, three people, sat in a bar, drinking one bottle of water. They hardly even actually drank it either. Are you seriously telling me the customers are in the clear here?

Depending on the circumstances, which you don’t know, it’s certainly possible.

 

[keaton]

Sorry, but smacks a bit of ‘Price of everything, value of nothing…’ Like listening to my dear mum comparing Costa (‘rip off’) with coffee served at the WI for 20p (by volunteers, in cold parish room, using mellows and coffee mate…)

If I'm not drinking wine or beer, I don't want tend to want a sugary drink with what I'm eating.

Also Costa is a rip off, pay a quid or two more and get something decent

 

[portlock seagull]

If I'm not drinking wine or beer, I don't want tend to want a sugary drink with what I'm eating.

Also Costa is a rip off, pay a quid or two more and get something decent

As is your choice. And Costa clearly isn’t a rip off in the eyes of the millions of daily customers that enjoy and the tens of thousands of jobs it supports.

 

[SweatyMexican]

You guys can afford tap water?