So Bournemouth did gamble big time

[glasfryn]

Fa
fl
ffp
f**k up

 

[Sweeney Todd]

yeah I take your point and in 'real life' I agree with you. i just think that there is so much in football that is stacked against the smaller clubs. In my view FFP creates a level playing field for those smaller clubs but also restricts their ability to challenge the elite. I just don't see much moral difference between spending too much of an owners own money and diving for a penalty to gain promotion. If we do it by the latter on Saturday then i won't lose much sleep over it !!

Bournemouth gained promotion by flouting FFP and displaying Oscar-worthy acrobatics in the penalty-area.

 

[Mellotron]

Why does everyone keep using the words "gamble" and "gambling" when they mean "cheat" and "cheating"?

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Why does everyone keep using the words "gamble" and "gambling" when they mean "cheat" and "cheating"?

I assume the gamble is on the clubs survival if you fail to or lose the premiership riches

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Perhaps instead of fining them an arrangement could be made with the Prem that it is withheld from their parachute payments upon relegation. Part of the terms for inclusion in the Prem

But the Premier league care almost nothing about football outside their league (FA Cup a great example) - they would be happy if other leagues didn't exist as long as they had all the so called big clubs that generate them viewing figures and spend money

 

[Mellotron]

I assume the gamble is on the clubs survival if you fail to or lose the premiership riches

Yes but my point is referring to it as a "gamble" makes it sound like there was no wrongdoing. This is painting the picture incorrectly.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Not sure if you're referring to me, but I don't particularly care tbh... Yes, we spent bigger than we perhaps should have to get into the Prem, but that was the gamble... last year... Not the previous years, where we achieved an incredible amount, in short period, on limited resources... Broken record now but 8 of our 11, on Saturday at Everton were in our promoted Lg 1 side... and YES we've paid the fine, unlike most others... Which lets not forget, along with £4.6 million of ground improvements for getting to the PL, was included in that £39 million loss...

The thing with FFP is that the very notion of it is unfair... So we have tiny ground which means we can spend less than teams that have large grounds, for example, and can generate a massive amount of income... So that puts everyone on a level playing field doesn't it...? How does that make it possible for anyone than the rich and famous teams to achieve greatness in English football...?

I'm not saying this because we have broken it, but FFP is a complete joke... Even most of the posters on here have agreed... Something needs to be in place to stop club owners doing the types of things that happened to Blackpool and Portsmouth, but there should not be something in place that stops smaller clubs 'who can afford to spend', trying to achieve something in top flight football... Why shouldn't smaller clubs be able to spend 'within their limits' when the prize is 3 or 4 times the income of what you've spent...?

I've come to learn that critics criticise out of pure jealousy... I actually want BHA in the Premier League as I think you'd be a better addition than the likes of Burnley etc. However, are you folks so sure that your own house is squeaky clean... Ive no idea... Do you...

You're kidding yourself dude. The Football League clubs signed up to FFP, yet Bournemouth completed flouted the law while most other clubs played it by the book and kept within FFP limits.

Dice it up any way you like, your club cheated and got away with it.

What this does now is encourage all sorts of cowboys to replicate your gamble - the FFP fine is negligible given the Prem riches to be had, with plenty left over to rebuild a stand or even finance the rebuilding of a stadium. However, there will almost certainly be casualties, i.e. where would you be if you hadn't got promoted with £50 mill of losses amassed in 2 seasons?

 

[Stato]

Something needs to be in place to stop club owners doing the types of things that happened to Blackpool and Portsmouth, but there should not be something in place that stops smaller clubs 'who can afford to spend', trying to achieve something in top flight football.

Portsmouth were a smaller club who could afford to spend... all the time that their foreign owners were interested. When they pulled the plug, the people of Portsmouth nearly lost their football club. The accusation against Blackpool's owners is that they got to the top division and them took the financial rewards for themselves. Both of these are risks that Bournemouth could face very easily should the ownership change. Given how close you have been to the cliff edge in the past, I can appreciate that you just want to enjoy the massive change in fortune. I just hope, when the inevitable relegation comes and the ride is over, that the fans of AFC Bournemouth are left with a club that can 'try to achieve something' at any level of football.

 

[WonderingSoton]

Portsmouth were a smaller club who could afford to spend... all the time that their foreign owners were interested. When they pulled the plug, the people of Portsmouth nearly lost their football club. The accusation against Blackpool's owners is that they got to the top division and them took the financial rewards for themselves. Both of these are risks that Bournemouth could face very easily should the ownership change. Given how close you have been to the cliff edge in the past, I can appreciate that you just want to enjoy the massive change in fortune. I just hope, when the inevitable relegation comes and the ride is over, that the fans of AFC Bournemouth are left with a club that can 'try to achieve something' at any level of football.

We're ~150m in debt to Bloom, so what happens if and when our ownership changes? We love Bloom and he's a local fan, but he's not going to be our owner forever.
Sadly, almost every club is dependent on their owner at that time and any change in ownership spells disruption and potential trouble.
I worry that some of our lot forget how much we owe (in thanks / gratitude) to Bloom, and we take his underwriting for granted, as we sit in his lovely stadium every other week, watching the team he has paid to build.

Of course, getting to the magical money tree that is the PL does change that formula, for as long as you can stay in it, because suddenly there is another source of massive money that isn't the individual owner. However that depends on how wisely the club spends that PL money. Maybe we'll get the chance to try that ourselves!

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

We're ~150m in debt to Bloom, so what happens if and when our ownership changes? We love Bloom and he's a local fan, but he's not going to be our owner forever.
Sadly, almost every club is dependent on their owner at that time and any change in ownership spells disruption and potential trouble.
I worry that some of our lot forget how much we owe (in thanks / gratitude) to Bloom, and we take his underwriting for granted, as we sit in his lovely stadium every other week, watching the team he has paid to build.

Of course, getting to the magical money tree that is the PL does change that formula, for as long as you can stay in it, because suddenly there is another source of massive money that isn't the individual owner. However that depends on how wisely the club spends that PL money. Maybe we'll get the chance to try that ourselves!

Well from what we know, Tony does seem to be in it fir the long term, Dad and Grandad I believe were involved, think his brother is involved as well. He goes to away games with the fans, has spent a lot of money on infrastructure as loans that I understand he will write off, and leave us with a permanent legacy. He has not spent big money on players and wages and we have sold players to build our squad.

Yes their is always the danger he may want to sell to someone who could perhaps take the club further but for a long period now we could be lucky and have a family who love the club as much as us owning it.

We should always guard against dodgy owners but our recent past will help us keep this on the radar for now,

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes but my point is referring to it as a "gamble" makes it sound like there was no wrongdoing. This is painting the picture incorrectly.

Quite. Whenever a club spends money in order to achieve something (especially promotion to the prem) then if the gamble does not pay off, the investment is lost. This is a legal, albeit risky, activity.

However, when there are rules in place to limit how much money can be gambled (spent on salaries etc), and the rules are broken, this is illegal within the framework of the competition. The problem seems to be that the rules are not enforced in a consistent or meaningful way.

I can't knock a club for taking an even bigger risk than 'normal' gambling, and risking a penalty. The fault is with the leagues who seem unwilling to construct or enforce coherent rules.

I have overtaken a police car on the motorway at 75 mph and the cops have just ignored me. On the other hand, a police person with a hand held device clocked me doing 38 in a 30 zone and I got 3 points. It is the inconsistency that makes people think they can break the rules, and which causes annoyance when 'reasonable gambling' morphs into frank rule breaking. Break the rules at your own risk. I suspect some of the peevishness on here is because BHA appear to be gambling conservatively and may have been outdone by others who have been more reckless, and avoided the '3 points' (which to my mind would be an appropriate penalty - especially for Middlesboro') . . . .

 

[Stato]

We're ~150m in debt to Bloom, so what happens if and when our ownership changes? We love Bloom and he's a local fan, but he's not going to be our owner forever.
Sadly, almost every club is dependent on their owner at that time and any change in ownership spells disruption and potential trouble.
I worry that some of our lot forget how much we owe (in thanks / gratitude) to Bloom, and we take his underwriting for granted, as we sit in his lovely stadium every other week, watching the team he has paid to build.

Of course, getting to the magical money tree that is the PL does change that formula, for as long as you can stay in it, because suddenly there is another source of massive money that isn't the individual owner. However that depends on how wisely the club spends that PL money. Maybe we'll get the chance to try that ourselves!

I am sure that every Albion fan is very aware that everything we have is thanks to Tony Bloom. We are very very fortunate to have him.

We are not only lucky that he is extremely generous, but also that he is just as shrewd. He has not broken FFP rules and actually voted against them being weakened. Everything he has done as chairman seems to have been motivated first and foremost by the desire to ensure that this club is secure for years to come. I seem to remember that he even confirmed at a fans forum that the club's security has been taken care of in his will.

Tony Bloom's approach has been the exact opposite of Portsmouth's owners. He has secured the infrastructure first. Success on the pitch will come and go, but his funding of the stadium and the training complex interest free gives the club a stable footing to look towards sustainability in the medium to long term. You are right that promotion could bring this aim a lot closer and he has been covering losses to try to achieve this. Reaching a level of self sufficiency that would guarantee that Sussex's football team is secure for future generations is the dream of many of us who lived through the Archer years and, thankfully, I believe that includes Tony Bloom.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Why does everyone keep using the words "gamble" and "gambling" when they mean "cheat" and "cheating"?

Leicester have won the PL by gambling, so if that's the reward why bother following the rules.

100 million just for TV money and that's before the CL money and prize money - it's worth the risk

 

[portslade seagull]

They're still plucky of course! Good bunch of lads according to diamond GEEZER Harry Redknapp.

And he knows a thing or two about cheating supposedly

 

[El Presidente]

Just because the cost of the fine appears in their P&L doesn't mean they have paid it - it could still be outstanding in their creditors on the Balance Sheet. It may show within the cashflow statement whether the cash actually was paid over to the authorities.

It can't have been paid at the balance sheet date as they won't have finalised the accounts at that date.

 

[El Presidente]

Not sure if you're referring to me, but I don't particularly care tbh... Yes, we spent bigger than we perhaps should have to get into the Prem, but that was the gamble... last year... Not the previous years, where we achieved an incredible amount, in short period, on limited resources... Broken record now but 8 of our 11, on Saturday at Everton were in our promoted Lg 1 side... and YES we've paid the fine, unlike most others... Which lets not forget, along with £4.6 million of ground improvements for getting to the PL, was included in that £39 million loss...

The thing with FFP is that the very notion of it is unfair... So we have tiny ground which means we can spend less than teams that have large grounds, for example, and can generate a massive amount of income... So that puts everyone on a level playing field doesn't it...? How does that make it possible for anyone than the rich and famous teams to achieve greatness in English football...?

I'm not saying this because we have broken it, but FFP is a complete joke... Even most of the posters on here have agreed... Something needs to be in place to stop club owners doing the types of things that happened to Blackpool and Portsmouth, but there should not be something in place that stops smaller clubs 'who can afford to spend', trying to achieve something in top flight football... Why shouldn't smaller clubs be able to spend 'within their limits' when the prize is 3 or 4 times the income of what you've spent...?

I've come to learn that critics criticise out of pure jealousy... I actually want BHA in the Premier League as I think you'd be a better addition than the likes of Burnley etc. However, are you folks so sure that your own house is squeaky clean... Ive no idea... Do you...

I've got no issue with Bournemouth being promoted last season. You were the best team on the pitch and therefore were promoted on merit.

The football you played was exciting and attacking, and was great to watch.

As for FFP, I have a vague familiarity of it and am not it's biggest fan.

What hacked off many was the notion, promoted by AFCB, and defended by 'Muff fans on here. that they went up on a shoestring budget, which has proven to be complete bollocks.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Well from what we know, Tony does seem to be in it fir the long term, Dad and Grandad I believe were involved, think his brother is involved as well. He goes to away games with the fans, has spent a lot of money on infrastructure as loans that I understand he will write off, and leave us with a permanent legacy. He has not spent big money on players and wages and we have sold players to build our squad.

Yes their is always the danger he may want to sell to someone who could perhaps take the club further but for a long period now we could be lucky and have a family who love the club as much as us owning it.

We should always guard against dodgy owners but our recent past will help us keep this on the radar for now,

He has stated the next chairman will be his son. I think that maybe in a few years to come.

 

[halbpro]

What was their fine? 200 million? 300 million? I haven't read the story but without looking I'm prepared to wager money that the fine is nothing like the money they've raked in from just being in the PL. They took a gamble and it paid off. Actually they took two gambles. The first one was that any FFP 'sanctions' would be meaningless and the second that they WOULD actually reach the PL. Given our gutless administrators the first was probably quite an easy one to call, but if the second one had failed doubtless in a few years time we'd have heard a load of sob-stories about 'poor' Bournemouth being in financial trouble because of debts run up by the previous owner (as he undoubtedly would be by then).

But even then, thinking about it, that wasn't much of a gamble either. You'd get the usual addle-brained souls saying we should be sympathetic as it isn't the fans fault, and eventually Bournemouth would write off all their debts in exchange for 12 league points.

They were fined £7.6m, which is about right for their loss based on the rules published by Football League. Based on some quick spreadsheet work their fine is for a loss of ~£33.5m. Now, they actually lost £38.3m, but not all losses are factored into FFP calculations, so reducing the losses by £5m seems entirely probably. It would seem that the League haven't been gutless and have, probably, applied the rules that clubs agreed to correctly. I'm sure [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] can shed more light, given his areas of expertise.

 

[El Presidente]

I'm sure [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION] can shed more light, given his areas of expertise.

What's hardcore 1970's pornography got to do with Bournemouth?

 

[halbpro]

What's hardcore 1970's pornography got to do with Bournemouth?

I'm sure you'll find the link if you study the source material a little more.