Smacking Children

[binky]

Before I had children, I was dead against smacking.
Why would anyone want to hit a child?

When I learned my wife was pregnant, I reconsidered.
The problem of keeping kids "on track" had suddenly become less abstract.
I watched other parents in the supermarket, on the bus, in the street, using a light smack to corect "bad" behaviour.
In some cases I thouhght they had reacted too soon, or over reacted, in some cases it seemed that the smack had no effect, in some cases, it seemed that the smack had the desired effect.
I changed my mind, and resereved the right to discipline my child with a smack if necessary, and at that time I would have defended to the hilt, a parents right to make that determination.

13 years on, I have two well behaved children.
Not once have I needed to physically discipline either of them, or for that matter, ever raise my voice.

So I'm tempted to change my mind again, back to the "smacking is hideous" position.
But my experience can hardly be taken as an example to cover nearly 6 billion people in the world, and it is clear that more kids are now more out of control than when I was a child, and smacking was not frowned on, and corporal punishment was allowed in schools.

Is this another nature vs nurture thing?
Will some children ONLY respond to physical discipline, while others respond more to humiliation?, withdrawal of perks? withdrawal of love?
I think there is no single answer.
Some would say that's because I cant make up my mind, and I'm a fence sitter.

I prefer to think of it as wisdom, in not taking an extreme position one way or the other.
I think an absolute ban on physical chastisement is unwise, at the same time as thinking that having corporal punishment as a defacto "rule" is unwise.
It depends upon the child and the situation.

One final thought.
Without some kind of physical punishment, what is the last resort for children, and for that matter, adults, who wilfully transgress the accepted rules of the family, and society at large? Because what we have at present doesnt seem to be working for a significant proportion of the population.

 

[Finch]

Will some children ONLY respond to physical discipline, while others respond more to humiliation?, withdrawal of perks? withdrawal of love?
I think there is no single answer.

This is pretty much how I feel. No child is exactly the same and to think a universal approach to discipline will work for everyone is naive imo.

Even though I only quoted a part, your whole post was spot on.

 

[BadFish]

Spanking lowers a child's IQ, researcher says | Booster Shots | Los Angeles Times

Interesting article showing links between smacking and IQ. Although it doesn't go into details of the study.

 

[BadFish]

WTF? Spanking Young Children Makes Academically Successful Teenagers

Another article about a study showing that smacking improves school performance but also encourages aggressive behaviour.

The second comment is very interesting also

 

[BadFish]

Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of psychology at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, said her study showed there was insufficient evidence to deny parents the freedom to determine how their children should be punished.

She said: “The claims made for not spanking children fail to hold up. They are not consistent with the data.

“I think of spanking as a dangerous tool, but there are times when there is a job big enough for a dangerous tool. You just don’t use it for all your jobs.”

Smacked children more successful later in life, study finds - Telegraph

Interesting extract from an article in the telegraph. If spanking is a dangerous tool maybe we should have more training or information about how to use it?

 

[garethlewes]

Surely if a parent is smacking their child it is because they don't have a high enough IQ to find other ways which don't lead to violence. If the parent can use intellect and find ways of getting their children to know what is right and wrong without using smacking. A lot of people say that Rooney and Terry etc... are role models and that the children will copy them, so is a parent not a role model? surely if a child is being hit/physically abused by their parent then they will take this as a means of getting someone do what they want them to. With children it is very much monkey see monkey do and when they have children of their own they will use these out dated parenting techniques.

In this age of education and material possession we don't need smacking, it is very archaic, some are saying 'In my day children where smacked regularly and it didn't do me any harm' well isn't that the point 'in their day' it is a very different time social evolution moves very quickly and thoughts, feelings, ways of expressing yourself and ways of doing things are totally different to say 50 years ago. Laws also change and people have to be able to find other ways of 'punishing' their children. One thing that irritates me the most is The Daily Mail way of thinking, as in 'Hitting them its the only way they will learn' and (on a different matter) 'Capital punishment is the only way to deal with murderers', if a child has done something wrong and they are unaware it is wrong surely talking to that child and explaining why it is wrong and that they should not do it again is better then them being hit, hitting is a punishment that lasts for 2 minutes and they may not even know why they have been hit or what they did wrong. It just seems very childish to hit a child, in a sense that a child doesn't know how to control themselves and behave in social situations where as an adult has a highly developed mind and should be able to control themselves. Someone that says smacking their children is right is basically saying violence is fine in every situation like if a waiter drops a plate should they then be smacked? well no.

 

[BadFish]

Surely if a parent is smacking their child it is because they don't have a high enough IQ to find other ways which don't lead to violence. .

I think this is a bit harsh, i know some very intelligent people who choose to hit their children in the belief that it is a good way to discipline their children. They have thought about it and decided that it is the best way they can parent.

 

[garethlewes]

I think this is a bit harsh, i know some very intelligent people who choose to hit their children in the belief that it is a good way to discipline their children. They have thought about it and decided that it is the best way they can parent.

May be a bit harsh yeah, although did they try other things before hitting them?

 

[Finch]

May be a bit harsh yeah, although did they try other things before hitting them?

Who is "they"? A good parent, a bad parent? A middle of the road parent? What is the scenario? Are you going to define that a good parent is if they smack their child or not?

Saying someone has a low IQ because they believe in a different approach to you isn't a very good way to construct an argument.

 

[BadFish]

May be a bit harsh yeah, although did they try other things before hitting them?

Different strokes for different folks here I'm afraid. It is just not an issue that is cut and dried. A bit like defining a good and bad parent. i know that i try very hard to do the best for my kids but i know i have failings and i am probably an adequate parent. I will not really know until my kids have grown up.

This is the problem with the smacking debate. there are so many influences on a child's life it is very difficult to measure the effects on just one of them.

 

[garethlewes]

Different strokes for different folks here I'm afraid. It is just not an issue that is cut and dried. A bit like defining a good and bad parent. i know that i try very hard to do the best for my kids but i know i have failings and i am probably an adequate parent. I will not really know until my kids have grown up.

This is the problem with the smacking debate. there are so many influences on a child's life it is very difficult to measure the effects on just one of them.

Very true, smacking alone wont make a child do something bad etc when they grow up but it may contribute to it.

 

[BadFish]

Very true, smacking alone wont make a child do something bad etc when they grow up but it may contribute to it.

In my experience as a teacher generallythe students i have trouble with have parents who are not interested (don't reinforce homework, don't come to parent teacher interviews or other school activities) or who have no boundaries or discipline.

Generally the kids who succeed and enjoy school have visible parents, who get involved in the school, reinforce what we are doing, help with homework, come to assembly and that sort of stuff.

How important is this debate in the whole scheme of bringing up children? possibly not very

 

[binky]

If the parent can use intellect and find ways of getting their children to know what is right and wrong without using smacking.

So you are starting with an assumption of high-IQ parent = no smacking and low-IQ parent = smacking, because they know no better.
I think your assumption is wrong. (As well as being deeply patronising).

Further, it leaves open the question of what said parent is to do, (high or low IQ...), when the child clearly knows right from wrong, but continues to push the boundaries.

Someone that says smacking their children is right is basically saying violence is fine in every situation like if a waiter drops a plate should they then be smacked?

Of course not. Reducto ad absurdum can be an excellent technique for showing flaws in an argument, but I'm afraid you have misused it here.

When I was at school, I didn't want to be caned. It definitely modified my behaviour. I'm absolutely certain that it modified the behaviour of the "bad boys", because they didn't want to be caned either.
In my entire time at school, I was only aware of two boys being caned, (for violence and bullying), and one girl getting "the slipper", (as I recall, for setting another girl's hair alight).
If the corporal punishment sanction had not been there, and seen to be there, I think that overall behaviour in the school would have been a lot worse.
But this is only my opinion, anecdotal, and unprovable.
There are, as many people have said, many studies that say they show corporal punishment doesn't work.
I wonder if there are any which show that it does work, which don't get the same publicity or exposure? Or perhaps aren't allowed to proceed because they may result in the "wrong" answer.

Unfortunately, I think there are too many vested interests, belief systems, and politics in place to be able to form a properly informed view.

In the mean time, I'll remain on my fence.

 

[macky]

not to me you never , Like bushy said Your snide And We have people like You let loose on our kids Could be part of the problem We face

 

[BadFish]

Yeah fair enough, i apologise, it's been a long day

In case you missed it. I'm sorry i was rude about your punctuation, i didn't mean to upset you. Now can we move on?

 

[Seagull on the wing]

I've come to the conclusion physical discipline is only for the benefit of the person dishing it out. Makes them feel better about being in a superior place in order to be able to hand out such an ineffectual punishment. Parenting is about patience, tolerance and respect. Not about violence. Violent parenting is lazy parenting imho. Its to easy to snap and lash out, its harder to sit down and have a chat about whatever is going on and more importantly WHY its going on.

I've never hit my son and never will. Likewise he knows its inappropriate to hit others at school.

How can we expect a 5 year old who gets hit at home to know its not appropriate to then hit others at school?

What if someone hits him at school,does he just accept it.Violence is the way of the world,it's not nice but it's there!

 

[garethlewes]

Who is "they"? A good parent, a bad parent? A middle of the road parent? What is the scenario? Are you going to define that a good parent is if they smack their child or not?

Saying someone has a low IQ because they believe in a different approach to you isn't a very good way to construct an argument.

In reply to the above look below and then below again.

I think this is a bit harsh, i know some very intelligent people who choose to hit their children in the belief that it is a good way to discipline their children. They have thought about it and decided that it is the best way they can parent.

May be a bit harsh yeah, although did they try other things before hitting them?

In reply to all those who said about the IQ thing in my post I have looked at it and should be read and replaced with emotional intelligence.