Slavery !

[Lokki 7]

If it works for you to compare the press-banged working of a man who couldn't walk freely, nor make a trip back to his home (where he probably would've been killed or been in a massacre) with Britain v Germany and Italy (and others), then you certainly have an interesting way of stretching your imagination just to come up with an opposing viewpoint.

It's not worth me even reasoning with unreasonable viewpoints, so do please use your imagination to muster something else up.

Eh? I have no idea what you are going on about. Who would "probably have been massacre(d)"? You are stating that slaves were better off as slaves, I am saying that people are better off free. Not that difficult to understand is it?

 

[Simster]

I'll be the first to apologise to the Irish once they appologise for Graham f***ing Norton.

Although he was f***ing quality in the two Father Ted's he was in.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Eh? I have no idea what you are going on about. Who would "probably have been massacre(d)"? You are stating that slaves were better off as slaves, I am saying that people are better off free. Not that difficult to understand is it?

Aye, fight and you may die, run, and you'll live... at least for a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Although he was f***ing quality in the two Father Ted's he was in.

Only because the writers worked out he was an irritating twot and therefore wrote a part to suit his 'personality'.

 

[tedebear]

I don't understand why Blair has to apologise for something that wasn't anything to do with him or us.... I completely agree with ensuring that the abolition is recognised and celebrated and that we all learn about what went on and how many people/families were tragically affected - but why should Blair apologise?

 

[NMH]

Eh? I have no idea what you are going on about. Who would "probably have been massacre(d)"? You are stating that slaves were better off as slaves, I am saying that people are better off free. Not that difficult to understand is it?

Yep, they are better off free.
Looking at the plight of those slaves though, they would also, in a perfect world, be better off if they, and their own neighbours would leave each other alone, and stop killing each other in tribal wars.

I agree that slave trading was bad, I agree that our part in it was wrong, and I agree that the population of this earth should not have ever misused, enslaved, or killed any other person/s.
I understand.

All I've said was that the ensuing plight of the slaves in that trade era, has led up to there being a populace among us that Blair is apparently apologising to, and rightly so.

How you people manage to point to me as if I agree with or totally excuse the slave trade, is beyond me, but since you want to do that I'm not bothered to even discuss with people like you.

 

[Lokki 7]

How you people manage to point to me as if I agree with or totally excuse the slave trade, is beyond me,

I personally reflect on slavery as a rescuing of many Africans

"People like me"?

 

[Meade's Ball]

You did seem to suggest they were better off to work without name and treated as an animal rather than be killed by a continent's imagined savagery, which seemed highly questionable.
That was the query or doubt in your comment NMH.

 

[NMH]

I don't understand why Blair has to apologise for something that wasn't anything to do with him or us.... I completely agree with ensuring that the abolition is recognised and celebrated and that we all learn about what went on and how many people/families were tragically affected - but why should Blair apologise?

Because it helps to put some things into some comparitive peace. We still talk about the more recent wars and events in our history - at what point should we just say "bollocks to that, why should we have to even think about that part of history?" when some people do think about it. Should we decide to ignore everything ever done in history? Should we brush aside everything that we've done in history, and in the same time forget everything done against us? Not while there is a feeling about it from those who have felt hard done by.

We (as a nation) should apologise to the Muslims, as a religious group, in my opinion. THAT seems to me to carry more importance in this time because it pertains to current times.
The rhetoric that Bush dug up by declaring war in Afghanistan and Iraq as a "crusade" is something he should really bow and scrape in apology for!

 

[Billy the Fish]

Bloody Africans coming over and taking our jobs

 

[tedebear]

Because it helps to put some things into some comparitive peace. We still talk about the more recent wars and events in our history - at what point should we just say "bollocks to that, why should we have to even think about that part of history?" when some people do think about it. Should we decide to ignore everything ever done in history? Should we brush aside everything that we've done in history, and in the same time forget everything done against us? Not while there is a feeling about it from those who have felt hard done by.

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote in entirety - I wasn't talking about saying bollocks to it at all, history is very important, we should all learn about it, remember it and celebrate the things we feel are worthy of that right, but to get Blair to stand up and say sorry is really pointless in my opinion...

The people who have been dreadfully affected have every right to ensure that a day of rememberence or a ceremony is held...but to expect someone to apologise who never had anything to do with it is a little odd?

 

[NMH]

Didn't Tony Blair also recently apologise to India about our part in history that pertained to there?

I'd rather have Blair the international diplomat, than some idiot who thumbs his nose at international relations across the board....and does nothing to recognize the future that his actions will influence.
I just don't know how and why this dilpomat, who diplomatically apologises for the slave trade history, has sided with the invasion of Iraq and the vilifying of the Muslims without approaching some sort of apology to them, or at least a distancing from the religious 'racism' that has become rife in Europe.
I feel that a sensitivity toward the good people of well-founded spirituality would be in order in our time. They are certainly collectively sensitive about the attacks and press they have been getting, and I'm certainly not going to be the one to say they are wrong!
The Pope has already queered his pitch in that department by jumping on the bandwagon at a sensitive time.

 

[rool]

I personally reflect on slavery as a rescuing of many Africans from aggressive neighbours who would otherwise have killed them.

I can see what you are saying but unless I am missing the point I also assume from the above that wild animals are better off in a zoo because there are predators that might kill them?.

Knowing your views on animal welfare I would be very surprised if that was the case.

I have no opinion on Tony Blairs apology other than what harm is it to anyone?.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

What's winding up got to do with anything?
I think I did consider the harsh conditions that got the slaves from Africa to Europe, ..... or Australia, if you would like to ponder the plights of the press-ganged whites, and the prisoners sent there!

With that outlook though, and calling mine a wind-up, I hope you are going around apologising to those slaves. I agree with Blair apologising, for what it is now worth.

I assumed it was a wind-up because of the complete and utter misunderstanding of West Africa and the slave trade you obviously have.

 

[Man of Harveys]

As so often, Randy Newman says it best. I really didn't think anybody actually took him at face value though (although in the case of Leon Knight, he said it all with "Short People") - I digress. Check this song out, good, mournful tune too:

Sail Away

In america youll get food to eat
Wont have to run through the jungle
And scuff up your feet
Youll just sing about jesus and drink wine all day
Its great to be an american

Aint no lions or tigers-aint no mamba snake
Just the sweet watermelon and the buckwheat cake
Evrybody is as happy as a man can be
Climb aboard, little wog-sail away with me

Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into charleston bay
Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into charleston bay

In america every man is free
To take care of his home and his family
Youll be as happy as a monkey in a monkey tree
Youre all gonna be an american

Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into charleston bay
Sail away-sail away
We will cross the mighty ocean into charleston bay

 

[Pavilionaire]

Why does Blair feel the need to apologise for slavery NOW?

I can't see any other motivation than to seek votes from ethnic minorities and white liberal do-gooders.

I CAN see the need to apologise for war crimes and the like, but surely anything over, say, 100 years ago is a waste of time as everybody is already dead.

I wouldn't have such a problem if the statement had some sort of positive purpose as part of an overall initiative or direct act on behalf of the government but, as usual with Blair, it is an empty, pointless vacuous statement that makes me want the fucker to go quickly and go now. He is a lame duck PM.

 

[NMH]

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote in entirety - I wasn't talking about saying bollocks to it at all, history is very important, we should all learn about it, remember it and celebrate the things we feel are worthy of that right, but to get Blair to stand up and say sorry is really pointless in my opinion...

The people who have been dreadfully affected have every right to ensure that a day of rememberence or a ceremony is held...but to expect someone to apologise who never had anything to do with it is a little odd?

I don't think you are being so cavalier as saying "bollocks to it", no tedebear, and I don't think people (like Tony Blair) should either.
The reason why the slave issue remains addressable (to some or many), is that it became ingrained into a following history - it wasn't just a simple, done and dusted, war's over situation.
German people have apologised to me, even recently, for the last war. I wasn't alive during it. However, there was a satisfactory end to that war. We won. Although that's not the only thing to remember, or the end of all thoughts, I don't feel it's something we should keep a person-to person resentment about. Germany tried to take over, they ended up losing lives, and half their nation to Russia for much of the last century. There's a feeling that they have endured a punishment. There is ALSO some sort of understanding of the history that created and enabled Nazi Germany.
None of this is so about the slave trade.

Personally I'm not going around apologising to people of African descent for the slave trade. But - if Blair has improved international relations and respect by a simple expression addressing any perceivable sensitivity - then more good than harm has been done, surely?

 

[NMH]

I assumed it was a wind-up because of the complete and utter misunderstanding of West Africa and the slave trade you obviously have.

Ah yes, you can obviously see how I lack understanding of West Africa. I stand adjusted by your full understanding and how can I apologise ENOUGH for the poor ignorance transparently inherent in my posts.

Thankyou for your sweeping statement that corrected me so eloquently.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Are there actually people out there who were lobbying for this apology

If not, why do it? The UK outlawed slavery 173 years ago, i.e. around the time my great-great-great grandmother would have been borne - 6 generations ago (I'm 38).

If there WERE people lobbying then I have one thing to say to them - get a f***ing life!

 

[NMH]

I can see what you are saying but unless I am missing the point I also assume from the above that wild animals are better off in a zoo because there are predators that might kill them?.

Knowing your views on animal welfare I would be very surprised if that was the case.

I have no opinion on Tony Blairs apology other than what harm is it to anyone?.

First of all, I was never saying that the imprisoned were better off by there being a slave trade. I was pointing out the way it went, and I didn't say it was great for all parties that it happened. I was discussing the ensuing history of the people who were enslaved.

I agree with the overall sentiment of your last statement, except to point out that it is your opinion, so there is reasoning behind it. The conclusion that it doesn't harm anyone, and although it might mean little to some people, it might just mean something to others - and why indeed NOT respect other nations and races?