[Politics] Sir Tony Blair .................. ?

[Machiavelli]

Hang on.

Was that the same overlevered business friendly economy that went to shit during the GFC? The one driven by unnecessarily low rates which spawned a huge amount of PE takeovers and too much debt? Blair did well to get out of that just in time, although you could argue Brown was responsible under Blair's watch, and why wouldn't Tony let Gordon hang himself out to dry? And that comment about Iraq is just weak. Bush wants me to invade Russia, think I better had.....

History is not judging Blair as well as your post. Few rose tinted spectacles there.

Yes, I raised an eyebrow to that comment about the economy from [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION]. Sure, it was a global financial crisis that led on to a series of economic crises around the world, but we were hit harder because we were more exposed to the financial sector, who were lauded as Masters of the Universe by Blair, and all and sundry. That said, the growth rates over the 13 years of New Labour were far better than the subsequent decade under the Tories (and that's before CV19 is factored in), yet you'll find precious few that can register that (and they'll all laud Osborne for his wonderful austerity drive).

I think you're right on Brown. I can remember him saying when CoE that there are two sorts of Chancellors: those that fail, and those that get out in time. He illustrated that there were actually three: those that get out in time but become PM.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Took us into an illegal war on the back of complete lies. He deserves something, but it aint a knighthood.

Indeed. Just ask Dr David Kelly - oh, wait a minute...

 

[Bish Bosh]

That was never the case. We went into Iraq because America was going in and we had the choice to line up with uncle Sam, or incur the wrath of the Mail, Sun, Times, Telegraph and Express, all regurgitated on radio and TV news, with spin-off investigations on Panorama, Newsnight, and on and on, etc., for letting down our closest allies at their time of need, and behaving like the French.

When the press announcement (invasion) was made I started to listen with the view that we should not engage in another overseas fiasco like Vietnam, with countless civilian casualties and no clear end game. I was against the war. But I'm happy to listen to arguments. I listened to Colin Powell and I listened to Jack Straw. Every word. They explained that Blix of the UN had attempted to inspect Saddam's weapons repeatedly over ten years (I didn't know that). Every time Blix went in, the UN were prevented from doing the job properly (I didn't know that). This raised the question 'what does Saddam have to hide?' (the though crossed my mind as well). The Blix solution was to ask for another UN resolution to ask Saddam if it would be OK if we come and see if you have any WMDs (I hadn't known that). Again. After ten years of identical attempts that had failed. OK, I though, that's rubbish.

So America felt that they either let Saddam carry on taking the piss, or they send in a force to topple him.

Should the UK stand shoulder to shoulder with its great ally (incidentally I never bought the great ally thing, but it had been heavily promoted by none other than Maggie Thatcher, so I invoke it here since it was de facto for the right of centre, as exemplified by the newspapers listed above), or tell them 'sorry, we don't really want to.....and, oh, Saddam, you're OK mate '.

Mr Tony had no choice.

Later he showed a lack of judgement by allowing the idea that actual WMD had been found, probably, as reported in the dodgy dossier, to surface. There was absolutely no need to aftertime with 'physical evidence' - the invasion was already justified. And there was the expert bloke who killed himself. That was made out to have been a murder instigated by Tony Blair in order to, er, prevent someone saying 'actually I never told you there were actual WMDs, I just said that....oh, never mind'. All this allowed all the Tony haters to summon up their very best hypocrisy and accuse him of lying to the nation to drag us into war. And sadly a lot of labour supporters fell for these lies. Let me tell such people again, you've been had, and as a consequence Tony handed over to the hapless jock, and consequently have now suffered more than 10 years of tory shitwittery culminating in Boris.

We had a great prime minister, one with simple kindly vision, an ability to compromise with capital, and show decisive leadership. The people who hate him most, still, are the 'would vote for a pig if it wore a blues rosette' style tories, and the old labour dinosaurs who think the worst thing a party can do is 'compromise with the electorate'. The same people who claim the war was 'illegal' (it wasn't) include many who would be quite happy if Boris were to break UK law for the sake of Brexit.

Compared with the venal, dishonest and incompetant shower we have 'running' the country now.....Mr Tony was decent. Not perfect, no sir (I resigned from labour during his tenure owing to one policy of his), but decent.

If this thread is correct in that Boris has offered Tony a knighthood, one can imagine this has been done simply to whip up the 'shouldn't have gone to war, Tony B Liar!' brigade. If he has any sense Blair'll tell Boris to do one. Unfortunately he probably won't. Either way, I'm not bothered. I think the honours system works extremely well for the people who feel the need for an honours system. Incidentally Blair turned down a peerage a few years ago so accepting a knighthood would seem unlikely.

Was the handover to Broon anything to do with Iraq? Thought it was all part of the agreement when John Smith died...Granita and so on.

Happy to be corrected.

 

[nicko31]

The sooner we ditch the honours system in its current state the better.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, I raised an eyebrow to that comment about the economy from [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION]. Sure, it was a global financial crisis that led on to a series of economic crises around the world, but we were hit harder because we were more exposed to the financial sector, who were lauded as Masters of the Universe by Blair, and all and sundry. That said, the growth rates over the 13 years of New Labour were far better than the subsequent decade under the Tories (and that's before CV19 is factored in), yet you'll find precious few that can register that (and they'll all laud Osborne for his wonderful austerity drive).

I think you're right on Brown. I can remember him saying when CoE that there are two sorts of Chancellors: those that fail, and those that get out in time. He illustrated that there were actually three: those that get out in time but become PM.

its worth correcting that we were hit harder because Brown's policies of increased future spending relied on perpetual growth, and running a permanent deficit he considered affordable. Brown believed his own hype that he'd ended boom and bust, so made no provision for any sort of down turn. oops. finance sector itself recovered quickly and was paying back bailout money almost immediately (from interests on loans, fees on guarantees and special taxes). meanwhile public finances had a large black hole, with increased welfare commitments and lower tax revenues, so the deficit grew for years.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think the OP has once again turned to the bottle at 6am in the morning, struggling to come to terms with only being the third wealthiest person on NSC, and it is eating him up.

[MENTION=12697]Steve Foster[/MENTION] earns an above-average salary as a bog-standard pensions advisor (or an IFA, I can’t recall which it is now) . Why he claimed he was the wealthiest person on here only he knows.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

The sooner we ditch the honours system in its current state the better.

I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to come up with that.

I thought it might be Herr Tubby, but l was wrong.

 

[CheeseRolls]

its worth correcting that we were hit harder because Brown's policies of increased future spending relied on perpetual growth, and running a permanent deficit he considered affordable. Brown believed his own hype that he'd ended boom and bust, so made no provision for any sort of down turn. oops. finance sector itself recovered quickly and was paying back bailout money almost immediately (from interests on loans, fees on guarantees and special taxes). meanwhile public finances had a large black hole, with increased welfare commitments and lower tax revenues, so the deficit grew for years.

Brown I see getting the usual bad press.

1 He led the world in pushing for Quantitative easing. There wasn't an alternative and the party of business were all in favour of the usual (and oft repeated) do nothing, until it is too late.

2 There was insufficient growth post Brown, was this due to the size of the deficit, or mismanagement of the economy? Why was it necessary to slash capital expenditure, which drives growth as well as throttling welfare expenditure?

Make all the excuses you like for the unforeseen circumstances, but in over a decade in power the Tories have come NOWHERE near cutting the deficit, it is almost as if it never mattered.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[MENTION=12697]Steve Foster[/MENTION] earns an above-average salary as a bog-standard pensions advisor (or an IFA, I can’t recall which it is now) . Why he claimed he was the wealthiest person on here only he knows.

It was a bragging contest with him and a certain failed Tory councillor, as to who was the richest, iirc, which I probably don't.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Spent plenty of time ignoring Democracy even going behind the countrys back and advising the EU, bloke's a tosser
Regards
DF

 

[CheeseRolls]

Took us into an illegal war on the back of complete lies. He deserves something, but it aint a knighthood.

So where do you stand on having a traitor as Secretary for State for Education? Or do different standards apply here?

 

[Questions]

I’m the 3rd poorest poster on here........ actually maybe 2nd after this months statements come in.

 

[beorhthelm]

Brown I see getting the usual bad press.

1 He led the world in pushing for Quantitative easing. There wasn't an alternative and the party of business were all in favour of the usual (and oft repeated) do nothing, until it is too late.

2 There was insufficient growth post Brown, was this due to the size of the deficit, or mismanagement of the economy? Why was it necessary to slash capital expenditure, which drives growth as well as throttling welfare expenditure?

Make all the excuses you like for the unforeseen circumstances, but in over a decade in power the Tories have come NOWHERE near cutting the deficit, it is almost as if it never mattered.

QE was from Mervyn King at the BoE, deep economic theory. Darling promoted it and Brown got other nations to agree to follow. there certainly wasnt sufficent growth due to both the deficit and mismanagement. Osborne did nothing right either, riding the austerity horse without actually cutting finances, nor investing in a recovery. spending didnt actually drop, even in real terms welfare carried on rising, with budget raids from other areas and borrowing filling the hole left by Browns's spending plans.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It was a bragging contest with him and a certain failed Tory councillor, as to who was the richest, iirc, which I probably don't.

Two Tories bragging about who earns the most. How nice.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Two Tories bragging about who earns the most. How nice.

pretty common occurrence i would have thought

 

[CheeseRolls]

QE was from Mervyn King at the BoE, deep economic theory. Darling promoted it and Brown got other nations to agree to follow. there certainly wasnt sufficent growth due to both the deficit and mismanagement. Osborne did nothing right either, riding the austerity horse without actually cutting finances, nor investing in a recovery. spending didnt actually drop, even in real terms welfare carried on rising, with budget raids from other areas and borrowing filling the hole left by Browns's spending plans.

Osborne reformed pensions, which is the last and only good thing the Tories have delivered as far as I am concerned. Killing off the annuity racket was a positive step, it allowed me to take control of a pension, which I had zero visibility over.

There seems to be a bit of a trend on NSC for settling old scores. So whilst we are at it [MENTION=6481]steve[/MENTION]foster stands out as one of the worst footballers I ever played against. As a runner he was obviously fit, but only seemed to be able to run in straight lines. I can however highly recommend his company and I am very happy with the service provided. Maybe it is time to let the richest man thing go NSC.

 

[Steve Foster]

Osborne reformed pensions, which is the last and only good thing the Tories have delivered as far as I am concerned. Killing off the annuity racket was a positive step, it allowed me to take control of a pension, which I had zero visibility over.

There seems to be a bit of a trend on NSC for settling old scores. So whilst we are at it [MENTION=6481]steve[/MENTION]foster stands out as one of the worst footballers I ever played against. As a runner he was obviously fit, but only seemed to be able to run in straight lines. I can however highly recommend his company and I am very happy with the service provided. Maybe it is time to let the richest man thing go NSC.

Spot on! I was always a terrible footballer, unless a match lasted for 4 hours - then the marathon running training would take over; though even then I couldn’t score in an open net .

As for being the richest poster - I wish ! - an in-house joke posted years ago that was picked up & taken a different way. Still I’m flattered that somebody remembers my poor joke

 

[drew]

its worth correcting that we were hit harder because Brown's policies of increased future spending relied on perpetual growth, and running a permanent deficit he considered affordable. Brown believed his own hype that he'd ended boom and bust, so made no provision for any sort of down turn. oops. finance sector itself recovered quickly and was paying back bailout money almost immediately (from interests on loans, fees on guarantees and special taxes). meanwhile public finances had a large black hole, with increased welfare commitments and lower tax revenues, so the deficit grew for years.

And maybe the private sector recovered quickly because of the government stepped in to save the banks!!!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As for being the richest poster - I wish ! - an in-house joke posted years ago that was picked up & taken a different way. Still I’m flattered that somebody remembers my poor joke

My recollection of events is slightly different.

 

[drew]

So where do you stand on having a traitor as Secretary for State for Education? Or do different standards apply here?

I'm no fan of Williamson but 'traitor' is a bit harsh! He was found guilty of leaking a story about the Government using Huweii to install 5G and I'm guessing by bringing it to the public attention the security risk to the country was highlighted and, in hindsight, correctly. If anything, assuming he was responsible, he was acting in the interests of the country rather than trying to garner support from the Chinese.