Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
I'll take that as 'not a bloody clue' then.
[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10
- Thread starter Rdodge30
- Start date
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A couple of things:
- Stop wasting money on expensive contracts for mates - that will be a start.
- Gradually renationalise the railways when contracts end and/or franchises underperform - that will a) reduce subsidies b) improve investment (as the money will be spent on doing something rather than just going to overseas shareholders).
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
Can you help me with a list of 'recovery strategies' then?Well there are some suggestions in the three paragraphs above that you edited out
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,202
could you tell us what you would do?
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
I’ll add you to my list of former out-and-proud Tories who now only have sniping left. It’s a remarkable change.
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
You do that.
Your sniping at folk that frequent 'Spoons, some of which are decent places, just proves the point.
Still no plans or policies?
Here's one for small businesses https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/up...r-economy_Labours-plan-for-small-business.pdf
Here's a wider ranging plan https://labourtogether.uk/sites/default/files/2023-05/A NEW BUSINESS MODEL FOR BRITAIN.pdf
Here's a report about their "bold economic agenda" https://www.ft.com/content/fbc55e2c-6757-4270-af87-88fd39425cb9
But it's not just about 'money' and 'economics' is it. It's also about fairness / equality / democracy / well-being and so on. These sorts of things add to people's lives just as much as £££
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,015
never quite understand the obsession with rail. anyway, it's been current gov policy to do exactly as you say, no new franchises for years and they've slowly been re-absorbed into public ownership. the subsidies continue because it f***ing expensive and investment goes mostly into all those engineering works so many complain about. nothing about rail, or changing contracts for that matter, will help the economy grow. every party wants this, i hear naff all on how. hint, spending a lot on green energy is not sustainable growth, it's spending to fluff up the numbers for year or two. it may well be, since most western countries have similar problem, that we have exhausted economic growth with current models and thinking.
The National socialist party started with an agenda of anti semitism, intolerance and violence from day one. That’s evil to most people if not to you.
I doubt you are are how you come across , but you are not coming across at all well.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,767
He's only ever sniped
I don't believe he has ever managed to post any sort of case for anything, just sniped and trolled anyone and anything that may question his beloved cabal
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,202
financially, it's re-align with the eu without anyone finding out!
I comment mainly on the food and drink at ‘Spoons, not the punters.
Like everyone else, I’ll wait for the election manifesto for plans and policies. Hopefully it will stretch to more than 3 words.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,767
And when we are finally re-aligned, who will be the first to claim 'This is exactly the type of Brexit I voted for'
- Oct 17, 2008
- 14,505
I strongly disagree. In fact, my own experiences are the exact opposite, making this statement nonsense anecdotally.
I have been repeatedly attacked by the same two posters because I have opinions which sound to them like I’m a die-hard Tory. Despite repeatedly saying I’m voting Labour because of Starmer, repeatedly criticising this shit-show of a government, and saying I’ve only ever voted Tory once in my life. I’ve voted Lib Dem more than I’ve voted Tory.
So no, there is a small handful of posters who absolutely don’t want “robust debates”. This isn’t true.
Thoughts?
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Whoever runs there country is limited in what they can do. The more radical and impactful the intervention the more risky it is (for going wrong). So to look forward we need to think about where we are and how we got there.
Looking back over the last 50 years, the first radical and impactful measures I noted were the selling of council houses and the privatization of nationalized industry. I objected to the first on the grounds that the sales were at knock down prices, and stank of electoral bribe. It worked as the latter, and created a big expansion in working class tories. Sell at market value and I'd have been relaxed. Albeit who would be able to afford to buy their council house at market value? The privatizations were initially to take some millstones (like British Steel and the docks) off our back. But it soon turned into another electoral bribe, with the sales all done at below market value, meaning some made a killing. Tell Sid. Yes I know the GPO was shit, but why not fix it instead of selling it, so that the best bits could be profit-ized and the rest left to rot?
So that was radical and it stank and it worked for the beneficiaries. But what are we left with? A very crap and expensive rail network. A very crap, profiteering, foreign-owned and polluting water 'business'. Jewels like British Aerospace making private profit.
And we went in then out of the EU, no engagement for years after joining (English arrogance), the bluster and hubris, and then the flounce.
We move on and with no gimmicks left and no policies other than 'culture wars', the tories are bereft.
So what of Labour? Ten decent years under Blair where society became nicer, less prejudicial, with individual rights (to be human) protected. A decline in bullying in the workforce. For me a transformation from massive mortgage rates and shit pay to decent pay and a huge increase in standard of living. All without 'tea and biscuits at number ten'. Oh and a virtual end to 'The Troubles'. Not radical enough, some say, in that the privatized industries were not re-nationalized. That was a pragmatic decision, but in general it was no longer possible to turn back that particular clock without making new laws so it became legal to steal shares of 'ordinary men and women' and force foreign owners to sell back our railway system (etc.).
With a new labour government I'll be happy to see an end to the gimmicks (like Rwanda), the cronyism (how much taxpayers money was spunked making the likes of 'Lady' Mone richer), and the inability to engage with our neighbours. They will need to fix the border in the Irish Sea, something Johnson glibly dismissed as a mere detail. And they will have to raise money to pay for infrastructure upgrades. Our road are a mess. The North Kent railway was quietly renationalized when the French owners did a flit with the Covid payments (brilliant oversight by the tory government - not), so each franchise renewal will need to be done on terms that favour the commuter. I suspect this may trigger a cascade that ends up with rail going back to public ownership. This will take years, though. No magic wand.
For me they don't need to do a lot right away. Let them just stop doing all the shitty wanky and absurd things the tories have been doing, first. It will take many years to mend all the broken systems. The NHS is f***ed. Labour could fix that by making it easy for all the Singaporean, West Indian and other nurses and doctors to do what they always did before the great Culture War and the Brexit Bonus took hold - come here easily to work, without the threat of being deported at any moment on a technicality. Ditto the fruit picking here in Kent. Of course this risks a backlash, led by the likes of Rees Mogg and Farage, who will accuse Labour of undemocratic betrayal of Brexit. Brace yourself.
And so none of that will go in the manifesto, and nor should it.
My advice to lifelong tories is to brace yourself for a slow reversal of the cockwomblery. Try to not start shrieking about transgender tax increases and the destruction of the British way of life. Think about what is important, not just to you and your family, but to the society in which you live, the NHS, our schools (battered by Dalek inspectors who famously drove a decent head to suicide recently). Don't get sucked into f***ing culture wars. Don't imagine we cannot speak to the French or the EU in case we get a disease. Savour what you have. Be part of society and kind renewal. Don't hanker for the days when Britain strutted the world stage (our total lack of traction over Israel /Gaza should give a clue about our global clout these days). I think and I hope that Starmer and chums will lead us gently in this direction.
So, asking exactly what we will spend on what and how it will be paid for is a reasonable question, but if it is your main concern, it is a question you should also address to the tories. Those lying, cheating, shallow, devious ****s who have done f*** all for the UK these last 13 years except run down our national institutions while enriching themselves and their friends. Dithering over Covid. Getting Brexit done with no regard for the day after tomorrow. How are the tories going to transform themselves from the party that has raped the country to a party that will rebuild it? There's my equivalent question, and one you should also be asking.
rogersix
Well-known member
- Jan 18, 2014
- 8,202
You right wingers appear to thrive on a self generated siege mentality. We're not all out to get you, we are all simply to your left
Great minds.......
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Being flippant, two posters is a small handful.
I’m sorry those two have given you a hard time, and I know what that’s like.