[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've been intending to vote for Labour since Corbyn was kicked out.

However, the policy announced about VAT on school fees which will cost me and my daughter £200 per month out of our household budget ( even though the Government already save on the cost of her education ), and the disgraceful active ruling out of joining the European Single Market have made Labour not the party for me anymore. I could on a mellow polling day overlook one of these, but not both.

I'm no real fan of the current and recent Tories either and will definitely vote against them as well.

So, to be true to myself more than anything - so I can have no regrets or conflicts with myself - I'll be voting Lib Dem. It so nearly would have been Labour, but for me they blew it.

So, you are keen on tax breaks for private schools (because it suits your personal interest), and in favour of having our cake and eating it with future EU arrangements (to which the EU will never agree)? And these are the deal clinchers for you? You should find yourself nicely at home with the liberals.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think you're predictive text is taking liberties H.

I'm sure you meant 'where the majority would have representation in Government rather than a small minority'

Ah, with a coalition.

But I have never voted for a coalition, and neither has anyone else in the UK.

And what is the good of representation if it is proportional to my preferred party's share of the vote? With a 35% stake, my socialist imperative would be diluted by the 65% (33 + 32 %, say) of the opposition parties combined. Their tomfoolery would hold sway. If labour were the biggest party how would that be fair?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I've been intending to vote for Labour since Corbyn was kicked out.

However, the policy announced about VAT on school fees which will cost me and my daughter £200 per month out of our household budget ( even though the Government already save on the cost of her education ), and the disgraceful active ruling out of joining the European Single Market have made Labour not the party for me anymore. I could on a mellow polling day overlook one of these, but not both.

I'm no real fan of the current and recent Tories either and will definitely vote against them as well.

So, to be true to myself more than anything - so I can have no regrets or conflicts with myself - I'll be voting Lib Dem. It so nearly would have been Labour, but for me they blew it.

200 per month in VAT? If you can afford 12k a year on school fees surely another 200 a month won’t break the bank will it? Maybe sacrifice one of the Porsches? Or rent out a room in the east wing of your mansion?

 

[sparkie]

So, you are keen on tax breaks for private schools (because it suits your personal interest), and in favour of having our cake and eating it with future EU arrangements (to which the EU will never agree)? And these are the deal clinchers for you? You should find yourself nicely at home with the liberals.

I am in favour of not having my household budget increased by £200 per month for sure- so that is a pretty compelling reason not to vote for it.

I am in favour of joining the EEA for sure and tear my hair out at Starmer actively ruling it out.

As I said on a mellow polling day, if I were in a particularly good mood on the day I might in a moment of madness overlook perhaps 1 issue. Not 2.

I'll be true to myself and not vote against my interests. On looking into it the Liberal Dems have a pretty decent position currently in my opinion. If that "lets in the Torries", we'll Starmer blew it.

 

[sparkie]

200 per month in VAT? If you can afford 12k a year on school fees surely another 200 a month won’t break the bank will it? Maybe sacrifice one of the Porsches? Or rent out a room in the east wing of your mansion?

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

That 200 quid a month would make a massive difference to the household disposable budget.

Pretty insulting tbh.

 

[Is it PotG?]

200 per month in VAT? If you can afford 12k a year on school fees surely another 200 a month won’t break the bank will it? Maybe sacrifice one of the Porsches? Or rent out a room in the east wing of your mansion?

Ridiculous.

Many parents at the school educating our daughter were working class gadgees making great personal sacrifices.

The Chelsea Tractor brigade were a minority, usually found scoffing seafood and Chablis.
The photos were amazing.

 

[clapham_gull]

...even though the Government already save on the cost of her education.

That sounds a bit like the "I shouldn't pay for something I don't use" argument. The reality of course we all pay for all sorts of things we don't use or at least far less than others.

If not bang goes the NHS and train fairs increase even more.

As a non car owner I could of course argue (like motorists do) that all who use the roads should pay for them, but add that "non users" shouldn't.

You'd clear the congestion in London overnight, beyond the odd Ferrari, Rolls Royce and a number of Range Rovers taking the kids to the private school.

 

[BLOCK F]

Some of the comments on here remind me of why I could never ally myself to the Labour Party despite the utter disgrace this Tory Government have been.
The Tories need a couple of terms in Opposition to regather their senses and so for the good of the country, I hope the Labour Party make a decent fist of their time in office following their almost nailed on election victory.
I have been a Tory voter all my life, but I cannot bring myself to vote for them next time round anymore than I could vote Labour.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

That 200 quid a month would make a massive difference to the household disposable budget.

Pretty insulting tbh.

I can tell you that if I could afford £12K a year school fees (which I can) then I wouldn't notice an extra £1200 a year. It is far less than my fuel increase under the tories. And far less than the fuel increase paid by people who can't afford to send their kids to private school.

I personally wouldn't use the private school system, but if I did I wouldn't bleat on about having to pay my fair share of tax in doing so.

If you put your hand up and admit you only vote down pure self-interest lines I'd be quite accepting. It is a position. Not one I share but perfectly valid. But you seem to be making a virtue of it (like you are saving a precious state school place for someone else's desperate child). I raise one eyebrow.

I will be polite and call you one-eyed and selfish. Other adjectives did however flit across my mind.

 

[dazzer6666]

200 per month in VAT? If you can afford 12k a year on school fees surely another 200 a month won’t break the bank will it? Maybe sacrifice one of the Porsches? Or rent out a room in the east wing of your mansion?

Blimey. I’ve got several pals with kids in private education…….many have sacrificed all manner of things to make that happen. None of them live in mansions or drive porsches.

 

[clapham_gull]

Some of the comments on here remind me of why I could never ally myself to the Labour Party despite the utter disgrace this Tory Government have been.
The Tories need a couple of terms in Opposition to regather their senses and so for the good of the country, I hope the Labour Party make a decent fist of their time in office following their almost nailed on election victory.
I have been a Tory voter all my life, but I cannot bring myself to vote for them next time round anymore than I could vote Labour.

Are you in a marginal constituency ?

I've never lived anywhere where the incumbent party has lost their seat or even come close to it.

Many of us can argue the toss who will vote for, but it won't make a damned bit of difference to the result.

 

[abc]

That sounds a bit like the "I shouldn't pay for something I don't use" argument. The reality of course we all pay for all sorts of things we don't use or at least far less than others.

If not bang goes the NHS and train fairs increase even more.

As a non car owner I could of course argue (like motorists do) that all who use the roads should pay for them, but add that "non users" shouldn't.

You'd clear the congestion in London overnight, beyond the odd Ferrari, Rolls Royce and a number of Range Rovers taking the kids to the private school.

Totally get your point but its perhaps where 'what is best for the country' (strange political concept I appreciate at the moment) should come before dogma. If private schools were banned, then hundreds of thousands of pupils would be added to the state school system without a penny of extra tax income. The school system would collapse. Equally, private health care takes thousands of operations away from the nhs. Increasing the higher rate tax levels too far actually reduces total tax income (the richest employ more high powered accountants or bugger off to Monaco). None of this is necessarily right, fair or desirable but we have to be careful of unintended consequences - especially when we know what they are.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Blimey. I’ve got several pals with kids in private education…….many have sacrificed all manner of things to make that happen. None of them live in mansions or drive porsches.

I think the point is the bloke is claiming he is ditching labour over a £200 a month VAT increase, and labour ruling out something that can never happen anyway, and would be an absolute hostage to fortune if not ruled out.

If these are his reasons then he seems a rather shallow self-interested sort of cove (which is fine), hardly likely to be drawn to labour in the first place.

But he is also claiming he is doing the rest of us a favour by putting his kid into private school and appears to want us all to thank him for that.

Which is rather . . . . wanky.

 

[dazzer6666]

I think the point is the bloke is claiming he is ditching labour over a £200 a month VAT increase, and labour ruling out something that can never happen anyway, and would be an absolute hostage to fortune if not ruled out.

If these are his reasons then he seems a rather shallow self-interested sort of cove (which is fine), hardly likely to be drawn to labour in the first place.

But he is also claiming he is doing the rest of us a favour by putting his kid into private school and appears to want us all to thank him for that.

Which is rather . . . . wanky.

Maybe. I just thought the reaction was………wanky.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Totally get your point but its perhaps where 'what is best for the country' (strange political concept I appreciate at the moment) should come before dogma. If private schools were banned, then hundreds of thousands of pupils would be added to the state school system without a penny of extra tax income. The school system would collapse. Equally, private health care takes thousands of operations away from the nhs. Increasing the higher rate tax levels too far actually reduces total tax income (the richest employ more high powered accountants or bugger off to Monaco). None of this is necessarily right, fair or desirable but we have to be careful of unintended consequences - especially when we know what they are.

This is perhaps why @BLOCK F thinks he dislikes labour.

NOBODY on this thread has proposed banning private schools! So you are arguing against a made up argument.

I am a labour party member. I am all in favour of private schools.

But they are not charities (even if the tories have allowed them charitable status) and they should therefore pay tax.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Maybe. I just thought the reaction was………wanky.

Comment deleted.

 

[clapham_gull]

Totally get your point but its perhaps where 'what is best for the country' (strange political concept I appreciate at the moment) should come before dogma. If private schools were banned, then hundreds of thousands of pupils would be added to the state school system without a penny of extra tax income. The school system would collapse. Equally, private health care takes thousands of operations away from the nhs. Increasing the higher rate tax levels too far actually reduces total tax income (the richest employ more high powered accountants or bugger off to Monaco). None of this is necessarily right, fair or desirable but we have to be careful of unintended consequences - especially when we know what they are.

I literally have no view on private school and medicine or the use of it. I was reacting to comment about "saving the government money".

It's a common argument by those who "opt out" by suggesting they are either paying twice or their decision to do so should be seen as a virtue for the rest of society.

It's personal choice and if you can afford it great.

We all pay for things we "don't use" because most things are funded from central taxation. I'm subsidising the roads but don't use a car or bike. I ever so rarely use the NHS, but pay for more in taxes than I would if I had received the care privately.

I neither complain or go around thinking I'm doing someone a favour.

That's life and that's my point - that's all.

 

[A mex eyecan]

Personally, I don’t see why private schools shouldn’t have to pay VAT and not be liable as they claim charitable status. If they then choose to pass this extra cost onto the parents then fair do’s. They would though have to considered their market and if it will stand the increase just as any other business has to. What make them so special?

If you look at the millions and millions they spend on fancy new buildings and facilities its not that they are on their knees one may think.

There’s many things I’d like to treat my grandchildren to that would improve their lives no end but can’t afford them, maybe I should start demanding that those items are free from VAT?

 

[dazzer6666]

No you didn't. You misunderstood the narrative.

Thanks prof. Going back to not commenting on political threads.

 

[ROSM]

If labour get in, I know my income/expenditure will likely take an initial hit with tax rises or other controls. However I would trust them with my money more than I would the current lot. Politics on my view should be about doing the greater good for the greater number of people. Of the 3 main parties I dont believe the tories will and although the lib Democrats did some good stuff in coalition (pupil premium being one) i think their general naivety set the country back.