[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[sparkie]

If it's simple, you think they'd have known that before they stated, repeatedly, year after year, that they were going to remove charitable status from private schools. From what you're saying, it would be obvious to anyone who'd done some very basic research. Doesn't inspire confidence, tbh.

What is the new VAT proposal? That private schools would begin having to pay VAT on their purchases, or that schools fees chargeable to parents will be newly VATable?

They already pay VAT on items purchased. I think their proposed new status would mean they could actually claim it back ? .... which could reduce costs and fees a little..... but then 20% VAT would be charged on school fees. This is why Starmer talked about an estimated 10% fee rise, and others said 15%.

 

[nicko31]

Axeing charitable status is actually quite tricky which a number of school in partnerships, there could be legal implications. Labour are waking up to this.

I'd stick the plan but phase it in over a parliamentary term, but start with a VAT and business rates at the earliest realistic opportunity.

Hopefully lots of private schools will go, the fewer of them the better. Getting rid of them entirely should be the ultimate goal, imagine how much better State schools would be if all those sharp elbowed pushy parents had their kids in the locals comps.

Many countries have no private schools and are at the top of world education league tables. As things stand we have State sponsorship of our broken class system.

 

[jcdenton08]

Starmer knows making ridiculous promises that the electorate will see straight through will not win him an election, unlike a couple of his predecessors.

Get in first, assess the situation, then put realistic, actionable policies into action.

 

[Weststander]

I’ve a fair amount of knowledge on independent schools.

Opponents including here probably picture arrogant parents producing like minded kids, destined for top careers. That this 20% VAT fees hike will be a big step in ending that.

It won’t.

My experience is a whole load of parents on middle incomes, many not higher rate tax payers, who took their kids out of the state system due to mild to moderate SEN and/or bullying. To smallish, inclusive, private schools. Giving up holidays and making other sacrifices. Thus ending the bullying of their kids, giving them a chance. They’ll be affected by this. As a result I reckon 1,000’s more will join the growing home schooling sector.

Whilst the wealthy Rupert’s and Francecsa’s sending their kids to Eton, Brighton College or Winchester will barely notice the effect on their wealth. Creating future diplomats, judges and media executives, as was always the case.

I’d rather Starmer looked at the ideas of quotas or positive discrimination for top public sector jobs based on schooling history. How about 93.5% of folk taken on by the foreign office were educated at state comps?

 

[nicko31]

I’ve a fair amount of knowledge on independent schools.

Opponents including here probably picture arrogant parents producing like minded kids, destined for top careers. That this 20% VAT fees hike will be a big step in ending that.

It won’t.

My experience is a whole load of parents on middle incomes, many not higher rate tax payers, who took their kids out of the state system due to mild to moderate SEN and/or bullying. To smallish, inclusive, private schools. Giving up holidays and making other sacrifices. Thus ending the bullying of their kids, giving them a chance. They’ll be affected by this. As a result I reckon 1,000’s more will join the growing home schooling sector.

Whilst the wealthy Rupert’s and Francecsa’s sending their kids to Eton, Brighton College or Winchester will barely notice the effect on their wealth. Creating future diplomats, judges and media executives, as was always the case.

I’d rather Starmer looked at the ideas of quotas or positive discrimination for top public sector jobs based on schooling history. How about 93.5% of folk taken on by the foreign office were educated at state comps?

How can a standard rate tax payer afford to send one kid to private school, let alone two?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I’ve a fair amount of knowledge on independent schools.

Opponents including here probably picture arrogant parents producing like minded kids, destined for top careers. That this 20% VAT fees hike will be a big step in ending that.

It won’t.

My experience is a whole load of parents on middle incomes, many not higher rate tax payers, who took their kids out of the state system due to mild to moderate SEN and/or bullying. To smallish, inclusive, private schools. Giving up holidays and making other sacrifices. Thus ending the bullying of their kids, giving them a chance. They’ll be affected by this. As a result I reckon 1,000’s more will join the growing home schooling sector.

Whilst the wealthy Rupert’s and Francecsa’s sending their kids to Eton, Brighton College or Winchester will barely notice the effect on their wealth. Creating future diplomats, judges and media executives, as was always the case.

I’d rather Starmer looked at the ideas of quotas or positive discrimination for top public sector jobs based on schooling history. How about 93.5% of folk taken on by the foreign office were educated at state comps?

Not for the first time we will have to agree to disagree. There are people in Britain who are struggling desperately with the cost of living, inflation, rising rents, rising heating/power bills. I'm not sure there's many (if indeed, any) who have decided to spend money on private education that are amongst them.

I've heard from many today, who have had to give up holidays, nights out, new cars etc etc. It must be desperate to have that choice

Maybe they should give up their accountant and do it themselves to save money

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

How can a standard rate tax payer afford to send one kid to private school, let alone two?

Its tough and involves spending inheritance and getting into a lot of debt. And to be fair, a sizeable bursary / scholarship.

 

[Weststander]

How can a standard rate tax payer afford to send one kid to private school, let alone two?

Friends and family did. Examples:
Gross income £50k = £3,169 net, £38k = £2,489, totalling £5,658.
Two kids fees = £2,700.
Rare to no holidays, no interest in new cars.

What school fee figures did you have in mind?

 

[jcdenton08]

Wasn’t the policy about raising funding for schools in the public sector, rather than “punishing” high earners? Cause and effect.

The education sector needs all the money it can get. Starmer knows that if you pledge something costing money, then that money has to come from somewhere. No magical thinking, or outlandish pie in the sky policies which will never be affordable or supported in Parliament.

It’s a much stronger lead to say “well, the bad news is a handful of the most wealthy are going to pay higher private tuition fees. The good news is, we are using that extra money to invest in education for the children of every single one of you vote for us”.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Friends and family did. Examples:
Gross income £50k = £3,169 net, £38k = £2,489, totalling £5,658.
Two kids fees = £2,700.
Rare to no holidays, no interest in new cars.

What school fee figures did you have in mind?

I refer the right honourable to my post above.

No Holidays and no new cars ? It's really getting desperate

 

[Simster]

This will cost me £200 a month+ for the next 5-9 years if they win. I can't see myself voting for the ChargeSparkie200AMonth Party tbh. Think it'll be Tories(urgh) or spoil. Lol.

£200 a month is probably what the current bunch of clowns have cost my immediate family - it is certainly a six figure sum. I once worked it out but it includes £30k x 2 in university fees and a Brexit-related cost of living increase. That's £70k right there.

I wouldn't mind if that money went somewhere like putting food on the table for working nurses or increasing housing provision for those being bounced from hotel to hotel or who are literally on the streets. Instead they've trebled the national debt (which was the reason Labour were voted out in the first place), overseen a 20 food increase in food bank usage, and jizzed millions on uncompetitive (and even undelivered) contracts for their mates.

Some of the senior Tories over the past 13 years should be in prison. They are an absolute disgrace to the country.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’ve a fair amount of knowledge on independent schools.

Opponents including here probably picture arrogant parents producing like minded kids, destined for top careers. That this 20% VAT fees hike will be a big step in ending that.

It won’t.

My experience is a whole load of parents on middle incomes, many not higher rate tax payers, who took their kids out of the state system due to mild to moderate SEN and/or bullying. To smallish, inclusive, private schools. Giving up holidays and making other sacrifices. Thus ending the bullying of their kids, giving them a chance. They’ll be affected by this. As a result I reckon 1,000’s more will join the growing home schooling sector.

Whilst the wealthy Rupert’s and Francecsa’s sending their kids to Eton, Brighton College or Winchester will barely notice the effect on their wealth. Creating future diplomats, judges and media executives, as was always the case.

I’d rather Starmer looked at the ideas of quotas or positive discrimination for top public sector jobs based on schooling history. How about 93.5% of folk taken on by the foreign office were educated at state comps?

I expect a measured approach. Blairist, even, but brought forward a couple of decades.

Now is not the time for bollocks politics. We have had enough of that. Hopefully Starmer realizes this.

 

[WATFORD zero]

II’d rather Starmer looked at the ideas of quotas or positive discrimination for top public sector jobs based on schooling history. How about 93.5% of folk taken on by the foreign office were educated at state comps?

Sorry, just spotted this, out of interest, what percentage of foreign office staff do you think are junior grades (6/7 and below)

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

£200 a month is probably what the current bunch of clowns have cost my immediate family - it is certainly a six figure sum. I once worked it out but it includes £30k x 2 in university fees and a Brexit-related cost of living increase. That's £70k right there.

I wouldn't mind if that money went somewhere like putting food on the table for working nurses or increasing housing provision for those being bounced from hotel to hotel or who are literally on the streets. Instead they've trebled the national debt (which was the reason Labour were voted out in the first place), overseen a 20 food increase in food bank usage, and jizzed millions on uncompetitive (and even undelivered) contracts for their mates.

Some of the senior Tories over the past 13 years should be in prison. They are an absolute disgrace to the country.

But apart from that, worth serious consideration, innit?

(Sadly it is still the go-to solution for many.)

(I am entirely with you, obviously )

 

[sparkie]

How can a standard rate tax payer afford to send one kid to private school, let alone two?

It costs me £1k per month ( + potentially £200 Starmer Tax ). Barely affordable and a lot of other things sacrificed.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It costs me £1k per month ( +£200 Starmer Tax ). Barely affordable and a lot of other things sacrificed.

But to be fair it's you decision to invest £1k per month in this way, and it will still be your decision if I get to withdraw my subsidy of your VAT

 

[Bozza]

Friends and family did. Examples:
Gross income £50k = £3,169 net, £38k = £2,489, totalling £5,658.
Two kids fees = £2,700.
Rare to no holidays, no interest in new cars.

What school fee figures did you have in mind?

Indeed.

When my son left primary school just over two years ago, I was surprised at how many of his peers were moving on to fee-paying schools.

Don't get me wrong - it wasn't a huge number, but it was more than I'd have imagined. And, sitting here right now, I'd say that without exception every single one came from families with two working parents, none of whom were in what I'd consider well-paying careers and all with modest family homes.

I expect Mt Facepalm will be along in a minute with a sarcastic and patronising response to tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Weststander]

Sorry, just spotted this, out of interest, what percentage of foreign office staff do you think are junior grades (6/7 and below)

Haven’t a clue but R5 today said 67% of our overseas diplomats went to private schools.

Obviously, the intake % may be lower, but ultra confident lower ranking staff who were bred on “You will run the world” (this really is still taught) rise to the top through a command of public debating etc.

 

[heathgate]

The first one is, the second is symbolic and ideological and won't raise anywhere near the amount to fund NHS expansion.

Should everyone be taxed, yes..... but the reality is many will move and you'll get 25-40% of nothing with the loss of secondary taxations like VAT.

One tax I'd love them to change, is to remove road tax and apportion an extra taxation Levy on fuel. It doesn't seem fair that a granny who goes to shops once a week is taxed same as someone who does 30k a year, and it doesn't tax the plethora of foreign HGV vehicles on the roads who use them more than said Granny. It's a much fairer way where everyone would pay in proportion to usage.

The last time Labour squeezed the pips out of the top 1% and big Corporates.... in the 70s, they all left, taking their spending and employment with them..... big empty words sadly.

 

[sparkie]

But to be fair it's you decision to invest £1k per month in this way, and it will still be your decision if I get to withdraw my subsidy of your VAT

Indeed. That is fair.

But it means if I vote for the ChargeSparkie200AMonth Party then I can't complain if they do charge me that. So I won't be voting for them and will retain my right to be unhappy about it.