[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[rogersix]

In this instance- regarding immigration between France and UK , I believe personalities are of no significance whatsoever and also political competence is of little importance. I simply cannot see any situation where Macron enters into any agreement that benefits the UK.

All politics is local and the opinion polls of the French electorate regarding immigration to the UK will be more relevant to Macron than who is the other side of the negotiating table.

He is already trailing Le Pen

Of course if Le Pen gets power in France , there won’t even be a negotiating table

if only adults are in the room, then some common ground whereby both parties benefit is easily achievable

 

[Rdodge30]

if only adults are in the room, then some common ground whereby both parties benefit is easily achievable

Your premise is that Macron is an adult

 

[WATFORD zero]

I suggest that if we work with them to set-up a legal asylum route through a processing/assessment centre on French soil, they very much will work with us.

Well that was exactly what the French Government suggested and this Conservative Government turned them down

But you can prove anything by using facts

 

[rogersix]

Your premise is that Macron is an adult

i'ld be suprised if they haven't cobbled something together within a year of the tory demise

 

[WATFORD zero]

'A hostile territory for gangs'......or so the saying goes.

Is this not the man who once said that “racist undercurrent … permeates all immigration law”.

I also read, in an enlightening article by the eloquent Mrs Tominey that:
"As a Remainer, he battled to keep free movement. As shadow immigration minister, he fought against changes to Tier 2 visas, including a £35,000 salary cap.

He also fought against attempts to bring down the number of overseas students and the dependants they were bringing to the UK, and called for an amnesty for illegal workers and those who employ them. “Fairness and common sense dictate that we should not support the criminalisation of employees themselves for illegal working,” he declared in 2015.

According to an analysis by the Henry Jackson Society, between 2015 and 2022, Starmer voted 14 times against a stricter asylum system and abstained 22 times, never voting in favour of stricter measures. Indeed, he actually tried to modify the law to allow Channel migrants who are “afraid to return” to their home countries to be eligible for asylum, and endeavoured to prevent small boats that reach UK waters from being turned back."

What could possibly go wrong?

Oh dear.

Can you see how replacing your normal witless one liners with a post that is almost Shakespearian in it's length quoting what Starmer said nearly 40 years ago, could be interpreted as a little .... well .... desperate ?

Not by me, obviously

 

[WATFORD zero]

Wow - thanks a bunch

Only joking about the fact he's managed more than five words

(and now edited)

 

[Zeberdi]

Only joking

 

[Rdodge30]

Well that was exactly what the French Government suggested and this Conservative Government turned them down

But you can prove anything by using

Oh dear.

Can you see how replacing your normal witless one liners with a post that is almost Shakespearian in it's length quoting what Starmer said nearly 40 years ago, could be interpreted as a little .... well .... desperate ?

Not by me, obviously

Quite the opposite really … you yourself a few moments ago were harking back to 2018?? By the way , what was the proposed extra cost to the UK that Macron wanted back in 2018 … you forgot to mention

 

[WATFORD zero]

Quite the opposite really … you yourself a few moments ago were harking back to 2018?? By the way , what was the proposed extra cost to the UK that Macron wanted back in 2018 … you forgot to mention

Oh dear.

Can you see how replacing your normal witless one liners with a post that is almost Shakespearian in it's length quoting what Starmer said nearly 40 years ago, could be interpreted as a little .... well .... desperate ?

Not by me, obviously

And I thought my maths needed improving

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You cannot possibly believe that to be true??

The UK changes government and the French work with us to prevent refugees leaving France for the UK?

Will not happen

They will if we position some 'shoo back' boats on the fringes of our waters.

And in any case, it all used to work hunky dory... (data from https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/channel-crossings-tracker)

If migration watch uk is too right wing for you, these are the lefty BBC's figures:

 

[sparkie]

In this instance- regarding immigration between France and UK , I believe personalities are of no significance whatsoever and also political competence is of little importance. I simply cannot see any situation where Macron enters into any agreement that benefits the UK.

All politics is local and the opinion polls of the French electorate regarding immigration to the UK will be more relevant to Macron than who is the other side of the negotiating table.

He is already trailing Le Pen

Of course if Le Pen gets power in France , there won’t even be a negotiating table

Not sure that Macron is worried about trailing Le Pen as the election isn't until 2027 and he is barred from running then anyway ( no more than 2 consecutive terms, could comeback in 2032 though ).

 

[Bodian]

They will if we position some 'shoo back' boats on the fringes of our waters.

And in any case, it all used to work hunky dory... (data from https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/channel-crossings-tracker)

View attachment 182245


If migration watch uk is too right wing for you, these are the lefty BBC's figures:

View attachment 182246

But you forget that no-one wanted to actually come here before we took back control through Brexit. Now we are in the sunlit uplands everyone is desperate to cross the channel to join us.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

But you forget that no-one wanted to actually come here before we took back control through Brexit. Now we are in the sunlit uplands everyone is desperate to cross the channel to join us.

You are absolutely right.
"Illegal migration" is a measure of our success as a nation.
As indeed are Albanian criminal gangs who have taken over the drug trade, a reflection of the massive spending power of Britain's drug takers.
And let's not forget the massive increase in hospital waiting lists, a testament to the success and popularity of the NHS
And all thanks to the brilliant policies of the Tories which have turned Britain from a basket case under labour to what it is today.

 

[Is it PotG?]

The figures are stark for the Tony Blair effect on Britain’s borders. As Karl Williams of the Centre for Policy Studies has set out, in the 25 years up until his election in 1997, cumulative net migration totalled just 68,000. Over the next 25 years, 1998 to 2022, it totalled at least 5.9 million – almost a hundredfold increase.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

In this instance- regarding immigration between France and UK , I believe personalities are of no significance whatsoever and also political competence is of little importance. I simply cannot see any situation where Macron enters into any agreement that benefits the UK.

All politics is local and the opinion polls of the French electorate regarding immigration to the UK will be more relevant to Macron than who is the other side of the negotiating table.

He is already trailing Le Pen

Of course if Le Pen gets power in France , there won’t even be a negotiating table

I think I am beginning to see what you consider to be a solution, perhaps the only solution. No doubt taking your inspiration from this

 

[ROSM]

The figures are stark for the Tony Blair effect on Britain’s borders. As Karl Williams of the Centre for Policy Studies has set out, in the 25 years up until his election in 1997, cumulative net migration totalled just 68,000. Over the next 25 years, 1998 to 2022, it totalled at least 5.9 million – almost a hundredfold increase.

If you are going to quote from the andrew neil/adam Smith institute funded spectator then please give the full context. Rather than this being because we are overrun by foreigners, it's because we were a net emigration country but we are now keeping so many more people who aren't going to Australia, Canada, US (and since 2016, europe).

Also how much of that 5.9m have been since 2010 as opposed to 97 to 2010?

Karl Williams has worked with robert jenrick on this paper which in and of itself should question some of the comparable periods (moving from half centuries to decades and 25 yrs to 5 when looking at gdp rates and looking at 6 election cycles and blaming them all on the winner of the 1st three)

 

[WATFORD zero]

The figures are stark for the Tony Blair effect on Britain’s borders. As Karl Williams of the Centre for Policy Studies has set out, in the 25 years up until his election in 1997, cumulative net migration totalled just 68,000. Over the next 25 years, 1998 to 2022, it totalled at least 5.9 million – almost a hundredfold increase.

I do think that if you are going to quote right wing think tanks from the notorious 57 Tufton Street you could at least give them the credit of putting a link

https://cps.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/CPS_TAKING_BACK_CONTROL-FINAL.pdf

And it helps to make it clear that you're not alone in your desperate quest to come up with meaningless summaries based on completely unrelated figures in order to try and defend this current cabal.

Although if you, them and similar are now Rishi's best bet, even he must realise he's totally f***ed

 

[Is it PotG?]

I do think that if you are going to quote right wing think tanks from the notorious 57 Tufton Street you could at least give them the credit of putting a link

https://cps.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/CPS_TAKING_BACK_CONTROL-FINAL.pdf

And it helps to make it clear that you're not alone in your desperate quest to come up with meaningless summaries based on completely unrelated figures in order to try and defend this current cabal.

Although if you, them and similar are now Rishi's best bet, even he must realise he's totally f***ed

I thought I'd give you the chance for the customary edit prior to response.

The reason I didn't quote this 'source' was because it was a bloke down the pub what told me.

 

[Rdodge30]

I think there’s a case for the extreme increase in Harry’s graphs being down to

firstly: The Government’s change in policy regarding seeking asylum from outside the UK

secondly : The attitude of the French after The Government refused to foot the bill in 2018

thirdly: It’s a natural progression for unpoliced crime to increase and there is probably a lot of money to be made by the traffickers with very little risk to themselves due to the ineptitude of this Government.

Sir Keir Starmer’s plan to create a strong effective Border Patrol involving several agencies including MI5 is to be applauded and should prove effective.

His claims of negotiating repatriation policies with other countries and specifically agreeing a deal with the French to benefit the UK are either him being extremely naive…or him taking the electorate for being extremely naive.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think there’s a case for the extreme increase in Harry’s graphs being down to

firstly: The Government’s change in policy regarding seeking asylum from outside the UK

secondly : The attitude of the French after The Government refused to foot the bill in 2018

thirdly: It’s a natural progression for unpoliced crime to increase and there is probably a lot of money to be made by the traffickers with very little risk to themselves due to the ineptitude of this Government.

Sir Keir Starmer’s plan to create a strong effective Border Patrol involving several agencies including MI5 is to be applauded and should prove effective.

His claims of negotiating repatriation policies with other countries and specifically agreeing a deal with the French to benefit the UK are either him being extremely naive…or him taking the electorate for being extremely naive.

The main 4 reasons behind the increase in both Boat Crossings and the Backlog are as follows

Boat Crossings
(Numbers weren't recorded prior to 2018 as the government thought them inconsequential).
2018 - 299
2019 - 1,890
2020 - 8,466
2021 - 28,526
2022 - 45,755

Asylum Backlog
2012 - 9,800
2018 - 27,000
2022 - 161,000

This Government have achieved this by undertaking the following four steps

1. Remove the ability to claim Asylum from abroad.
2. Close legal Asylum routes to claimants.
3. Stop working with Interpol again to target people traffickers
4. Cut the numbers of caseworkers processing applications increasing the backlog

All of which force asylum seekers into boats and risk their lives.

And then round it off by spending as much money (to date) on a completely farcical, unimplementable Rwandan plan as it would have taken to employ the extra staff to clear the backlog three times over with money to spare

Now maybe these increases are down to complete and utter incompetence on the part of this Government, but considering the steps they have taken above I'm not so sure