Should Tube leaders go to prison?

[Cheshire Cat]

Prat.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

The free market enriches the powerful few and stuffs the powerless rest.. It is not a fair or equitable system.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Prat.

That was supposed to be replying the post 1 on this thread - clicked the wrong button.

 

[albionite]

Alton Towers scenario ??...Several people badly injured,no one killed.......There are many people killed (sadly fairly often) from train crashes due to Driver or other human error.

There is? Must of missed all the train crashes due to driver fault, suppose it happens so often it's not news worthy anymore.

 

[Juan Albion]

I dont generally reply to threads about politics on here anymore, seeing this as an exercise in pointlessness. However having read a bunch of people talking nonsense about the lives of others, when they have no idea what these lives would be like is irritating. Particularly when the original poster believes imprisoning should be an option. So I thought perhaps the words of someone going on strike about why he is doing it, may help you understand.

http://www.london24.com/news/transport/a_tube_drive_explains_why_he_s_striking_1_4144229

I wont waste time sharing the evidence of the appalling effects that long term night working has upon someones physical and mental health, as I doubt you'd care.

Have a nice day

Worth actually putting up the text, I think.


"Dear All my Commuter friends & anyone else who is interested in details of the strike action and dispute between TfL and their staff.

As you know I don’t usually comment on my work life as nobody really cares about other people’s jobs but due to some friends posting complete bullshit that they’ve copied and pasted from the media and haven’t got the common sense to ask someone who actually knows what they’re talking about now leaves me to enlighten you.

This dispute is not about money!

You can expect the usual barrage of total bollox in the media about “Greedy Overpaid Train Drivers” but this dispute has never been about money, It is about protecting work life balance and making sure that change in contracts are negotiated, not just imposed. And it’s not only Train drivers that voted for industrial action, it’s every grade of staff that works on the Underground network.

Everyone I work with that I know has given the same message, we cannot continue to have more and more weekend and anti-social hours working.

I have never been opposed to Night Tube, but it has to be introduced in a way that is fair; that recognises that staff are human beings with lives and families as well as a job.

The job I signed up to do works 1 week of nights over a 52 week period, sometimes 2 weeks if need be but under new terms I would have to work a minimum of 14 weeks of nights. I have a family, I would like to see them at weekend, shift work already takes a lot of that away. TfL can offer as much as they want, I work to live, not live to work.

TfL could have spent the last three months genuinely discussing how to resolve this dispute. They chose not to. They have not changed their position in any way (until yesterday, keep reading I’ll get to that).

If London comes to a halt this week, the people who should be blamed are not those who work hard to keep it moving all year round. It is the directors, and those above them, who simply do not believe that their staff have a right to a reasonable quality of life.

Yesterday’s events (Monday 6th July) at ACAS were really quite extraordinary. TfL having failed to change their offer for the last three months, now made a new proposal in the afternoon, but explained that it was “time bound” and would be “withdrawn if its conditions were not accepted by 18.30 this evening” by all four trade unions and industrial action was suspend.

TfL must have been aware that of course it would be impossible for Unions to comply with this ultimatum. Unions would need to properly consider the implications of the proposal and consult with Reps and their Executive Committees. Unions offered to return to ACAS at 12.00 today (Tuesday 7th July) to respond to the proposal but were told that it would be off the table after 18.30 today (Monday).

To be clear, Unions did not reject the offer. It has been withdrawn because the four Trade Unions were unable to comply with an utterly unrealistic “take it or leave it” ultimatum. It is pointless for Unions to express an opinion on an offer that no longer exists.

This now puts Unions in a position where there is no offer on pay, conditions or Night Tube on the table. It is difficult to believe that TfL are negotiating in good faith. Their offer seems to have been designed, not to resolve the dispute but to be used as a way to blame the Unions for what now seems to be inevitable industrial action.

Union members voted by a record breaking margin for industrial action.

I personally believe that TfL do not want to run a Night Tube service as it will cost them millions, the train and track are maintained to a minimum standard as it is but the Mayor of London announced it before it was ever discussed so they had to push ahead with it. I have a feeling TfL will now say it can’t run Night Tube due to the Unions but in reality they actually don’t want it.

Strike action will start from 21.30 on Wednesday 8th July.

Thanks for reading x"

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

Alton Towers scenario ??...Several people badly injured,no one killed.......There are many people killed (sadly fairly often) from train crashes due to Driver or other human error.

Are you talking globally or are you genuinely saying that people are often killed by trains, in Britain, due to driver error?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Do you always try to make things personal when your views are challenged?

I bet it works quite often.

It's not so much I feel my views are challenged, more I don't need a long winded explanation of simple supply and demand.

 

[Castello]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...to-be-annoying-say-tube-drivers-2015070999992

It does occur to me that all these people complaining about the tube strike are just jealous, because no one would complain if they went on strike.

Hope you all had a nice day

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Clearly they must be worth every penny since London apparently can't function without them.

 

[cloud]

But I assume the either have to live in London with its high housing costs, or commute in? The latter may not work if they are doing shifts.

They are given free travel passes, so they don't have to pay for their daily commute either

 

[Machiavelli]

I've just looked at a few pages from the other thread, and it is a right binfest.

My issue isn't whether or not they are striking. It's about where my sympathies lie. Yes, they're being asked to drastically change work patterns. That will impact their lives and if they haven't been consulted properly then strike action is inevitable. I'd still suggest that shifting the business to a 24-hour operation is a business decision and that TFL will need to recruit more drivers to cover that. If existing employees are being forced into changes of conditions then they have every right to strike. I'm not against that.

My issue is more around where I feel macro-priorities should lie (and I'm not saying changes to conditions aren't a dangerous precedent). Personally, I feel that roles within teaching and nursing - as two examples - bring with them the need for significant amounts of intellectual skill. They need to be rewarded with more. Much more. At the end of the day, what you're rewarded does matter. It pays for things. And as the government is now bringing in a tax on children that matters. So when I look at priorities, I find it hard to get over-sympathetic.

The 'Man' does get away with it all the time. Why are people in this country not angrier about that. If the tube drivers can get angry and organised, why aren't the people for whom society should feel support do the same. The divide between rich and poor has never been sharper.

I wish that unions played a greater role in Britain, and have a real sympathy for the point you're expressing. The simple point is that tube drivers' conditions are so good, because their strike action has a real impact on others. Teachers doing so, less so. Hence, tube drivers have got themselves into a position where they're paid vastly more money than teachers, despite the latter requiring more qualified workers and being a far more challenging and stressful job.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

A Tube driver's starting salary - which follows about six months of training - is £49,673, according to Transport for London (TfL), which adds that this "doesn't alter depending on length of time in role". They typically work a 36-hour week and get 43 days of leave every year, including bank holidays. Six of the days off are compensation for working 36, rather than 35, hours a week throughout the year.

Now, is this enough?

My concern is with those working in conditions where we aren't even paying the living wage. My concern is with those in nursing and teaching where salaries are both a deterrent to attracting the talent we need and basically unfair. My concern is about us penalising the poorest in society whilst the HMRC fails to collect tax from Major Corporates that are raking in millions.

I'm finding it hard to drum up much sympathy for the drivers at this stage.

Are you aware it wasn't just drivers withdrawing their labour today?
Signalling,line controllers,emergency response units,power supply and station staff all voted(98% of an 81% turnout) in favour of industrial action,that's over 15 thousand people standing together and saying NO BORIS.
As an aside,within the coming weeks 327 people could decide on whether we bomb Syria or 327 people could decide to reintroduce ripping apart a wild animal with packs of dogs.

 

[Hamilton]

Are you aware it wasn't just drivers withdrawing their labour today?
Signalling,line controllers,emergency response units,power supply and station staff all voted(98% of an 81% turnout) in favour of industrial action,that's over 15 thousand people standing together and saying NO BORIS.
As an aside,within the coming weeks 327 people could decide on whether we bomb Syria or 327 people could decide to reintroduce ripping apart a wild animal with packs of dogs.

In the scheme of things, I don't give a stuff about fox hunting.

I don't think Boris runs TfL. I think you'll find its Mr Brown.

I think you'll find we're on the same side.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I would say that if workers are to have certain rights then those rights should apply universally and be enforceable by law. Employment law does that job, and it is based on independent moral reasoning

It is, it's called a contract. Unfortunately too employers, like LU in this case, think they are to be ignored or altered at the EMPLOYERS whim. Partly because employees don't have the money to fight them.

And of course, if as an employee you decide you'll break the contract you get fired .... rather one sided to say the least.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

They are given free travel passes, so they don't have to pay for their daily commute either

Not if the Tories on the GLA get their own way and scrap the scheme to save £22M a year

 

[Chicken Run]

As an aside,within the coming weeks 327 people could decide on whether we bomb Syria or 327 people could decide to reintroduce ripping apart a wild animal with packs of dogs.

Don't be envious aspire Si…

Oh and since when did u give a shit about war and hunting, I remember you as a frustrated RP wishing he had some action lol

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

They are given free travel passes, so they don't have to pay for their daily commute either

Which, if true, will be taxed as a benefit in kind.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

Don't be envious aspire Si…

Oh and since when did u give a shit about war and hunting, I remember you as a frustrated RP wishing he had some action lol

Certainly don't aspire to participate in the ripping to shreds of a fox and 3 tours of Bosnia and 2 to the Persian Gulf certainly didn't leave me frustrated.

 

[Chicken Run]

They must have press ganged u down the mile with kings shilling, anyway I can sense your getting a little sensitive so bid you good nightx

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

They must have press ganged u down the mile with kings shilling, anyway I can sense your getting a little sensitive so bid you good nightx

Not at all sir.