Should there be A EU REFERENDUM

[Westdene Seagull]

But surely the UK system is such that you do have an opportunity to vote on this issue by picking a party with a clear policy on it at the next general election.

In reality, until the next GE, no.

Lib Dems = definitely in the EU and no referendum ( although strangely they promised one in their manifesto a couple of GEs back ).
Labour = definitely in the EU and no referendum ( although they promised one on Lisborn but lied ).
Tories = until recently definitely in the EU and no referendum ( promised one on Lisborn but lied ).

So given this has been the state of affairs for a while, no, there hasn't really been the opportunity to vote on our membership of the EU at a general election.

 

[jgmcdee]

In reality, until the next GE, no.

Lib Dems = definitely in the EU and no referendum ( although strangely they promised one in their manifesto a couple of GEs back ).
Labour = definitely in the EU and no referendum ( although they promised one on Lisborn but lied ).
Tories = until recently definitely in the EU and no referendum ( promised one on Lisborn but lied ).

So given this has been the state of affairs for a while, no, there hasn't really been the opportunity to vote on our membership of the EU at a general election.

But UKIP say that they definitely will provide a referendum so there is an opportunity at the next, and indeed was an opportunity at the last, general election.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

What was that you said about people being ill informed ?

Well the UKIP "effect" has forced Clegg into a TV debate, Cameron to "promise" a referendum, the Greens to support a referendum and Cameron to consider inviting Farage into the live TV debates for the GE. Not too shabby for a fringe party with 17% of the vote.

Besides, the main parties could wipe UKIP out overnight with a referendum but are either too stupid or too scared to do so ( especially Labour who are strangely silent on their policies on the EU ).

I know why Labour are silent on most issues regarding the EU and Immigration. Lots of their votes will be from the people they let in, that is the truth.
They don't want to upset them. Labour for me is now the party of immigration plain and simple. I don't know how long it takes for people to be eligible to vote. Should Labour get back in, all these things we talk about now will be put on the back burner.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

But UKIP say that they definitely will provide a referendum so there is an opportunity at the next, and indeed was an opportunity at the last, general election.

And even as someone that voted UKIP this week I recognise there isn't a chance in hell that they will form the next ( or any ) government. I wonder what made Cameron change his mind on a referendum, or indeed persuaded Clegg into the debate ? IMO it's the thought of them losing votes to UKIP.

Membership of the Common Market was decided by referendum because it was such an large change. Yet there have been greater changes in the EU project since then and the British electorate haven't had a proper say. Even pro-EU countries have had referendums on Lisborn.

I tend to find that it's only the pro-EU people that object to a referendum - presumably because they think it would back pulling out ?

 

[jgmcdee]

And even as someone that voted UKIP this week I recognise there isn't a chance in hell that they will form the next ( or any ) government.

But why? If it is because there aren't enough people that think of this as such a pressing issue they will vote for the only party which supports a referendum, then on what basis should there be a referendum?

I tend to find that it's only the pro-EU people that object to a referendum - presumably because they think it would back pulling out ?

What I object to is idea that one issue should have a referendum but others shouldn't. If I ranked this particular issue in terms of national impact it would sit somewhere in the middle (I'd put some of the major health and education issues above EU membership, certainly, along with others around our own devolution process) and although I recognise that this is only my opinion we're back to the issue of who decides what matters?

Which of course takes us back to the general election.

 

[hybrid_x]

This thread title should read:

"should you let corporate and central banking controlled politicians do what they want for their own gain, or do you want a say?"

 

[Deleted member 22389]

But why? If it is because there aren't enough people that think of this as such a pressing issue they will vote for the only party which supports a referendum, then on what basis should there be a referendum?

It will only be an issue when the areas they live in become over populated. Once ones quality of life is impacted on, then people will start asking the questions other people have woken up too already.

 

[sahel]

No - Governments are elected to make difficult decisions, based upon more data and information than most of us have the time or inclination to study....

Exactly right ! We live in a representative democracy not a direct democracy. I don't want important decisions made by people, most of whom have absolutely no idea of the facts or the issues and just vote on some vague notion of ridiculous nationalism and suspicion of foreigners. Just because UKIP got a few votes from the backward looking the main parties should not pander to their views. Let them vote how they like, just ignore them

 

[Deleted member 22389]

This thread title should read:

"should you let corporate and central banking controlled politicians do what they want for their own gain, or do you want a say?"

Your right, I think that just about sums it up. People will eventually learn, when it is too late.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I tend to find that it's only the pro-EU people that object to a referendum - presumably because they think it would back pulling out ?

I would not object to a referendum.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

This.

Quite right in what you say. The only party in the top 3 to have made their intentions plain are the Lib Dems who are in favour of staying in. But he reneged after he got his AV referendum on boundary changes I would'nt trust him. Labour have no clear policy,they promised a referendum before they got elected and reneged after,they now wait till they see which is the favourable wind and bow into it. Tories have promised a referendum in 2017,if they get back in power,but there again they reneged when offering a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty,so at the moment can't trust them to deliver.
So there is no clear path to vote for anyone who wants to come out of the European Superstate.
UKIP has given them that opportunity,now maybe the Tories and Labour will take notice.

 

[Shatner's Bassoon]

I tend to find that it's only the pro-EU people that object to a referendum - presumably because they think it would back pulling out ?

I would vote to stay in and would welcome a referendum.

 

[1234andcounting]

Do you really think a referendum would close the matter? We had a referendum on entry in 1975 and the vote was 2-1 in favour. Would it require a similar majority this time to decide either way (in/out)? Any close vote on a small turn out would leave the beaten "side" with the opportunity to carry on on the basis of lack of authority arising from the vote.

 

[Czechmate]

There should be a referendum , we are adult enough to make our own choice !

The only thing I am worried about at the moment is that the Tories have said they will have a referendum if they win the next election , does this mean that if it is another coalition with the Tories that they can get away from this promise ? is it just another underhand tactic ?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Do you really think a referendum would close the matter? We had a referendum on entry in 1975 and the vote was 2-1 in favour. Would it require a similar majority this time to decide either way (in/out)? Any close vote on a small turn out would leave the beaten "side" with the opportunity to carry on on the basis of lack of authority arising from the vote.

We need a referendum in order to vote YES to get out, then we can close the borders to the EU and have proper managed migration, if this is your issue.
There is no other way to deal with the issue. This is where the EU has got it so wrong. You should be able to say who comes in to your country.

I should imagine if Labour get in, they will be open to further immigration and even closer integration. In the end your voice will never get heard because the ones who Labour let in will be the ones who inevitabely vote Labour back in time and time again. I can see their plan already.

 

[GT49er]

Though UKIP wouldn't bother with the referendum they'd just take us out.

Which would be perfectly reasonable - if UKIP got voted in, they would have been voted in by people wanting to come out of Europe.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I always thought that a referendum was a waste of time, as anyone who has done any research realises that the economic implications of leaving the EU would be so negative that immigration would be a minor secondary issue. Who would want to come to a country with no economic growth ? Ever wondered why there is a lack of respected economists backing UKIP while all other parties can wheel out their experts ?

However, we do need strong leadership in the EU to protect the UK's interests and we are now in a situation where we are weakening our position in the EU by putting UKIP MEPs in, who have the worst track record in even attending, let alone protecting the UKs rights. (I know, it's a protest vote )

I believe that for that reason we should now have a referendum (I also predict a 3:1 vote for staying in).

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Just because UKIP got a few votes from the backward looking the main parties should not pander to their views. Let them vote how they like, just ignore them

Well done - you've completely failed to grasp the principles of democracy.

 

[GT49er]

Do you really think a referendum would close the matter? We had a referendum on entry in 1975 and the vote was 2-1 in favour.

The vote was 2-1 in favour.....of joining the common market, basically a free trade agreement. What wasn't included in the referendum was the massive Brussels bureaucracy making laws that affect us, the Single European Act, the Lisbon Treaty, the European Court of Human Rights, Maastricht, etc. - all of these were foisted on us later, without any consultation. As eventually will be a common currency and the United States of Europe.

Might have been a different outcome if people had known what they were voting for (and the 'Yes' campaign was one of the dirtiest ever)......that's why we should have one now.

 

[sahel]

Well done - you've completely failed to grasp the principles of democracy.

No I haven't. Ukip got 25% of a vote where the turnout was 30%. That is 7.5% of the electorate. If they get enough votes to form a government good luck to them - I will go and live somewhere else - an independent Scotland probably. In the meantime I don't want reasonable parties to start pandering to a small alienated minority with ill thought-out views based on mythology, fear and narrow mindedness.