Should the Daily Mail be closed down.

[kentgully]

When Jeremy is PM it may well be closed down .

Along with the country

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

It's always public school types who get threatened by threads like these, but they are the insecure losers. Close public schools down first, then we have a start in this country.

I'm not sure that I would go along with the notion that public school types feel threatened by threads like this......BUT

I would go along with the idea of closing public schools down for all sorts of reasons, although it is never going to happen. Will Hutton wrote a book many years ago called "The State we're in", and one of the big things he saw as perpetuating the inequalities in our society was private education.

I went to see my daughter play hockey yesterday and it was at the Leicester Grammar School - a private school. The facilities there were fantastic and no state school has got a hope in hell of doing anything similar. Why should kids get such a privileged start in life just because their parents can afford it, particularly when all it does is just deepen the divisions in our society.

 

[Hastings gull]

I'm not sure that I would go along with the notion that public school types feel threatened by threads like this......BUT

I would go along with the idea of closing public schools down for all sorts of reasons, although it is never going to happen. Will Hutton wrote a book many years ago called "The State we're in", and one of the big things he saw as perpetuating the inequalities in our society was private education.

I went to see my daughter play hockey yesterday and it was at the Leicester Grammar School - a private school. The facilities there were fantastic and no state school has got a hope in hell of doing anything similar. Why should kids get such a privileged start in life just because their parents can afford it, particularly when all it does is just deepen the divisions in our society.

Might what you are saying also apply to your daughter, playing hockey at a posh school in Leicester? She will doubtless have benefitted from your above-average salary in education, and encouragement to do the best in life. Don't get me wrong -I am delighted for her and you, as she is clearly achieving her potential, but it is the same old story, isn't it? It is so wrong when other parents, who probably, but not exclusively, earn more than you, then do the same. Socialism is brilliant for everybody else, isn't it.

 

[BigGully]

Why do you doubt I would challenge health tourism. If people who are not "entitled" to treatment by dint of their status receive treatment, they should pay. The Mail, though, reports such things in an aggressive and nasty way.

Perhaps a better example of the Mail's nastiness is the reporting of the recent case of a small Christian girl being fostered by a Muslim family, where they grossly overstated the whole thing, stating that the girl was threatened and bullied by the fosterers and actually printing a photograph which hhad been doctored. The original photo was of a muslim mother with (I presume) her daughter in a park in Dubai. In the original photo the woman was bare-headed. Before the Mail printed it they added a full-face veil. Why would they do that?

I would not ban the Daily Mail. I just think that any newspaper which plays fast and loose with the facts and does things deliberately to stir up at best ill-feeling or at worst hate should be clobbered by the law or by a strong press regulation presence.

If you are like my daughter's father-in-law, who is well in to his 80s and acknowledged as having a personality disorder, but who thinks that people don't like the Daily Mail because it prints "the truth", then words fail me.

Your first post was a fully loaded statement that was clearly inaccurate and you said gave reason why your heart WOULD ban the paper, it was clear you actually didnt know those figures otherwise why use them in the first place as an example of the papers inaccuracies when they were actually accurate.

Firmer press regulation shouldn't be driven by Guardian columnists.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Might what you are saying also apply to your daughter, playing hockey at a posh school in Leicester? She will doubtless have benefitted from your above-average salary in education, and encouragement to do the best in life. Don't get me wrong -I am delighted for her and you, as she is clearly achieving her potential, but it is the same old story, isn't it? It is so wrong when other parents, who probably, but not exclusively, earn more than you, then do the same. Socialism is brilliant for everybody else, isn't it.

Sorry if it was misleading, but my daughter is not a pupil tere. She is 33 and was playing for another team against a Leicester Ladies team which just happens to hire the Leicester Grammar School facilities.She went to one of our local Comprehensive schools, then to Sixth Form College and to University College London where she qualified as a doctor.

I work for the Churches locally part-time, and the other part-time for a local supermarket as a driver, so am not highly paid. My wife is the Principal of a local sixth-form college which, like most other state-funded institutions, is inadequately, or barely adequately, funded.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

What about all the stupid people that read the Guardian? All that left wing Marxist rubbish that appeals to the people that think the world owes them a living and support the idiot Corbyn

If you think the Guardian is Marxist, you've clearly never read it.

 

[Buzzer]

Don't know if it's been mentioned yet but there's a very weird and scary type of news item that seems unique to the Daily Mail that I would have no qualms about censoring: their obsession with printing photos of the underage daughters of celebrities in bikinis or skimpy outfits. Not particularly fussed about the rest of the nonsense it peddles but that just creeps me out.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Your first post was a fully loaded statement that was clearly inaccurate and you said gave reason why your heart WOULD ban the paper, it was clear you actually didnt know those figures otherwise why use them in the first place as an example of the papers inaccuracies when they were actually accurate.

Firmer press regulation shouldn't be driven by Guardian columnists.

In my original post, the only figure I quoted was £7.50, which I said was clearly an underestimate. I did not quote any figures other than that.

I think most people would accept that, if you say your heart would XYZ, but your head wouldn't, that XYZ is not something you would have any serious intention of doing.

I hadn't read the article when I responded initially. The actual figure it quoted for health tourism was a range, not the straight £280m you quoted, which is at the high end of that range. There is also a quote in the BBC article you gave the link to saying that health tourism is not a significant problem.

The cost of treatment of foreign nationals in this country is, I admit, much higher than I thought, and I am fairly disappointed that the NHS did not historically do more about this. It is addressing the question now. Whether they are doing so adequately might be another matter and I don't know enough about that to comment.

It doesn't change the fact that the Daily Mail is highly partisan (to say the least) in its reporting of such matters. And I am well aware that I am not alone in thinking that in these pages, let alone elsewhere.

And when did I say that firmer Press Regulation should be driven by Guardian Columnists, which would clearly be a stupid idea. If anything like that were to work, it would have to be independent.

And the Daily Mail, I believe, would oppose any move towards press regulation anywaay, principally because it would clip its wings severely if it were in any way effective, mainly because the Daily Mail is a ............ feeble excuse for a newspaper.

 

[lawros left foot]

I have noticed stuff like that. Monday to Fiday if a story is posted AM then all the responses are either drivel or bating till about 6.30pm when more erudite posts appear.

Its like Leftwards poll biases, whos going to be hanging around to answer a phone by pollsters? People who work hard dont have time or/and are not available as continuously.

And yet I've noticed you posting in 'working hours'

 

[pastafarian]

As I suspected, 34 per cent of Mail readers didn't vote Remain. Only 34 percent of those that voted. You didn't say that.

Boo Hoo
That 34% figure of mail readers that voted who voted remain is significantly high enough to show that those who rant against brexit and add the obligatory “Daily Mail readers” into the mix are talking out of their arse,You have used this flawed methodology yourself before and no doubt will falsely use it again in the future as you share out your prejudice.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm not sure that I would go along with the notion that public school types feel threatened by threads like this......BUT

I would go along with the idea of closing public schools down for all sorts of reasons, although it is never going to happen. Will Hutton wrote a book many years ago called "The State we're in", and one of the big things he saw as perpetuating the inequalities in our society was private education.

I went to see my daughter play hockey yesterday and it was at the Leicester Grammar School - a private school. The facilities there were fantastic and no state school has got a hope in hell of doing anything similar. Why should kids get such a privileged start in life just because their parents can afford it, particularly when all it does is just deepen the divisions in our society.

Why should children be denied these excellent facilities?
lowering the standards so its shit for all is just sour grapes.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Why should children be denied these excellent facilities?
lowering the standards so its shit for all is just sour grapes.

I am not saying children should be denied these facilities.
My attitude would be that such good facilities should be there for everyone.
You clearly either didn't read properly or didn't understand my post.

 

[beorhthelm]

I went to see my daughter play hockey yesterday and it was at the Leicester Grammar School - a private school. The facilities there were fantastic and no state school has got a hope in hell of doing anything similar. Why should kids get such a privileged start in life just because their parents can afford it, particularly when all it does is just deepen the divisions in our society.

it would be great for everyone to have those facilities. heres the issue:
average earner tax contribution to education = £8-900 p/a
average private school fees = £12-13000 p/a

 

[BigGully]

In my original post, the only figure I quoted was £7.50, which I said was clearly an underestimate. I did not quote any figures other than that.

Again that simply isn't true, what you said was 'There was a comparatively recent case where they printed a story about health tourism, stating how many millions per year foreign nationals coming here for medical treatment cost.. The whole thing was inflammatory but totally untrue'. whilst the actual figures are thought to be £2 billion spent on foreign nationals whilst approximately £280 million is from deliberate health tourism and totally contradicts your post.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38060432

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Again that simply isn't true, what you said was 'There was a comparatively recent case where they printed a story about health tourism, stating how many millions per year foreign nationals coming here for medical treatment cost.. The whole thing was inflammatory but totally untrue'. whilst the actual figures are thought to be £2 billion spent on foreign nationals whilst approximately £280 million is from deliberate health tourism and totally contradicts your post.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38060432

I didn't quote any EXACT figures, is what I meant, ither than the £7.50, which I think was clearly a joke.

Just out of interest, herewith a previous headline from the Daily Mail which expressly states that Health Tourism costs Billions.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4186478/Health-tourism-admits.html

Even if you take out the "totally untrue" from my previous post, it doesn't alter the fact that it is at worst inflammatory, at best totally biased, in the way it is dealt with and presented. It doesn't change the fact that the Daily Mail will take every opportunity to stir up at best ill feeling and at worst hatred. Look at the Muslim adoption story recently. Look at the way it highlighted the personal details of the Judges in the Supreme Court around the time of their judgement on the BREXIT vote going to the Commons for a vote, dealing with it in a way that plenty of Conservative MP's objected to because it was dangerously and irresponsibly undermining the independence of the Judiciary.

I don't know whether you read the Daily Mail or not, and I don't really care. If you are seeking to defend it, in my mind you are defending the indefensible. If ever I see, though, a headline in a Newspaper which either makes me laugh because it is clearly so ridiculous or angry because it is a gross distortion of the Truth, it is more than likely to be in the Daily Mail.

Incidentally, in terms of IPSO, which now deals with Press Complaints, I have just checked their website and note that there are three newspapers which do not subscribe to it, the Guardian, The Independent and the Financial Times.

 

[Hastings gull]

Sorry if it was misleading, but my daughter is not a pupil tere. She is 33 and was playing for another team against a Leicester Ladies team which just happens to hire the Leicester Grammar School facilities.She went to one of our local Comprehensive schools, then to Sixth Form College and to University College London where she qualified as a doctor.

I work for the Churches locally part-time, and the other part-time for a local supermarket as a driver, so am not highly paid. My wife is the Principal of a local sixth-form college which, like most other state-funded institutions, is inadequately, or barely adequately, funded.

Thanks for that. I did not think that your daughter was a pupil there, by the way. You are doing your utmost to present yourself as a poor boy, as I thought you might, and whilst your present employment might not pay well, you have in the past talked of teaching. I am sure that there is merit in what you say about the funding, though I am also sure that if a huge grant did come the way of your wife's school, you would still say it was under -funded. . . I did see that you tried to justify your point about the facilities by saying that all children should enjoy them, though this was not actually stated, but as we both know, this is a pipe dream, however desirable. The fact is that some folk do earn more , and/or choose to make the necessary sacrifice to have the kids done privately, so why should they not take advantage of private education, particularly given that they also pay through their income tax for state education, which they do not use. Yes, you are right, it does no doubt help in life when you enjoy superior facilities, but those earning less than you have, could say exactly the same about you, as I am sure that your daughter will have had a similarly beneficial supportive upbringing, with a few trimmings down the line,to help get her where she is now. Good luck to her is what I say -you will have devoted much time and energy, and spent out on her, so please don't then deny it to others.

 

[Two Professors]

Thought I'd buy a Mail this morning to see what the fuss is about.Have they been employing journos from that fading rag,the Gurnaid?
Not very good,will stick with Great Britain's favourite,The Sun.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Thanks for that. I did not think that your daughter was a pupil there, by the way. You are doing your utmost to present yourself as a poor boy, as I thought you might, and whilst your present employment might not pay well, you have in the past talked of teaching. I am sure that there is merit in what you say about the funding, though I am also sure that if a huge grant did come the way of your wife's school, you would still say it was under -funded. . . I did see that you tried to justify your point about the facilities by saying that all children should enjoy them, though this was not actually stated, but as we both know, this is a pipe dream, however desirable. The fact is that some folk do earn more , and/or choose to make the necessary sacrifice to have the kids done privately, so why should they not take advantage of private education, particularly given that they also pay through their income tax for state education, which they do not use. Yes, you are right, it does no doubt help in life when you enjoy superior facilities, but those earning less than you have, could say exactly the same about you, as I am sure that your daughter will have had a similarly beneficial supportive upbringing, with a few trimmings down the line,to help get her where she is now. Good luck to her is what I say -you will have devoted much time and energy, and spent out on her, so please don't then deny it to others.

I take on board everything you say, which is considered and thoughtful.

I am not well-paid, but my wife is. There is no way, thoough, that we would ever have been able to afford private education for our children. And yes, we have always been very supportive of them. One of the big problems of kids in less wealthy areas can be the attitudes of their parents. Some parents would not know how to be supportive - chaotic families - while others are just "less ambitious" or don't accept their children might be capable of more. It's very complicated. Some teachers (the worst) will also, on occasion, "write off" some of those they teach.

In terms of closing down private education, it would probably be political suicide for anyone who proposed to do it. The resulting overload on the state system would also be problematic - to say the least.

It's a philosophical point more than anything else, and it is not going to happen. Fifty plus years ago, when my wife as a young girl complained "It's not fair", her father would answer: "Well life isn't fair, dear", and that continues to be true. The point in the Will Hutton book I mentioned was that the Private Education System perpetuates and exacerbates the inequalities in our society. My dream would be that the State Education system would be so good that nobody would feel the need to send their children to be privately educated. And the State System at the moment favours what it considers to be "good schools", which is too heavily judged on results - hence the recent stuff around A-Level results time about some schools ditching poorer performing children because they were going to mar their results profile. The surprise there to many people was that it was actually a surprise to so many people. It's been going on for years in both the Private and Public Sector.

 

[rippleman]

Extremist regimes (on both left and right) usually set out to control the media early doors.

The Nazis took control or closed down the established press within months of coming to power in 1933.

You don't have to believe anything you read in the DM or any other news outlet. You don't have to buy the DM or any other newspaper.

But if you start having the State decide which papers should be banned, you are on a very slippery slope.

 

[Easy 10]

Aside from this debate, I went to the Mail website at lunchtime to read up about the massacre in Las Vegas. Its WAAAYYY down the page. The headline is Monarch going bust.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/index.html

Bonkers.