Should the bobby on the beat be armed?

[Westdene Seagull]

No on a number of counts :

> The police themselves don't want it
> There is absolutely no evidence it would save lives of either the public or officers.The two officers killed this week were ambushed so even if they had been armed they would have died.
> The only police that are armed at the moment are very highly trained. It would be impossible to train all officers to this level and thus those on the street could well not have the skills to handle a firearm.
> It will encourage criminals to arm themselves

 

[mikeyjh]

Couple of things to consider here - Firstly, while this is really sad, among all the hysteria only 8 officers have been shot dead in GB the last 20 years, and only 20 odd killed in line of duty in the last 10 years, of course 1 killing is too many but we all need some perspective - 68 police were shot dead in the US in 2011. So that begs the question, how many of these killings would have been prevented by either arming the police or the death penalty? (Which has to be the only point in changing the laws). I'd guess very few......

 

[Arkwright]

You would be suprised to know the number of police already carrying guns.

The high street bobby already has enough responsibility without that of being judge and jury in pulling the trigger.

Somehow the country needs to stop this gang land mentality and the bage of honour that is carrying knivies and guns.

 

[somerset]

No,.. thin end of the wedge,.... fine as it is, although this incident highlights the risks, but more likely it highlights the ineptitude of senior officers who sent two unarmed wpc's to that type of incident..... thats the big question for me.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You would be suprised to know the number of police already carrying guns.

5% of the police force are trained in firearms so I guess less than that are carrying firearms at any single point in time.

No,.. thin end of the wedge,.... fine as it is, although this incident highlights the risks, but more likely it highlights the ineptitude of senior officers who sent two unarmed wpc's to that type of incident..... thats the big question for me.

That seems a little bit of an unfair statement to me. They were responding to a report of burglary - I doubt it's standard to send an armed response unit to every report of that type.

 

[NickBHAFC18]

No. The more fire arms that are in use in this country, the crime rate will rise with it. British police are unique for their approach to tackling crime (even if it is questionable at times) but the death toll on Police men and woman is very low compared to countries that use armed Police. It's just very unfortunate that this has come about.

 

[Aadam]

The problem with this story is that it was a reported burglary, therefore as I understand it two unarmed police were dispatched. If reports of gunshots were heard, an armed response unit would have been dispatched, with helicopters and shit. I think we do just fine with the police split into specialities. It's so unnerving walking around Gatwick with the police and their guns swinging about.

I'm against all police being armed. But for having an armed response unit.

 

[Diego Napier]

I think they should be armed, but I do see the argument for them not being.

I do also think the death penalty should still be in force, all that said I do come from the "chop their hands off for stealing pick n mix" camp!!! Tazer guns should be used on people who park on yellow lines, and quite seriously anyone caught spitting chewing gum onto a street footpath should be publicly flogged in the town centre!!!

Bloody Hell!

No wonder you're a mod.

 

[hitony]

Bloody Hell!

No wonder you're a mod.

Exactly!!! Do you spit chewing gum onto the pavement or streets

 

[GreersElbow]

In the U.S, due to the 2nd amendment. It's sensible for the police to carry weapons. We don't have such broad firearms rights, therefore we don't need an armed police force. I do believe (correct me if they do already) should have police patrols with one firearms trained officer with perhaps a weapon in the car locked up just in case.

But for now, our police do a fantastic job. I've only met a few bobbies who think they're high and mighty, but the majority I've met seem very easily approachable and are not intimidating in anyway. A gun on them would change that.

 

[El Presidente]

68 Police shot dead in the USA in 2011, where police are armed
0 Police shot dead in the UK in 2011, where police are not armed

Guns held by US police force 897,400 at an approximate total cost of £180,000,000
Guns held by UK police forces 7,835, at an approximate total cost of £1,567,000

 

[Falkor]

NO but we should have more armed officers maybe a set number based at each station, not sure how doable that is though

 

[Nibble]

Christ NO! I don't trust most police to conduct themselves appropriately as it is, it would be a disaster.

 

[Chief Wiggum]

Officers Down POLICE INSPECTOR BLOG

 

[cliveh27]

Despite the awful tragedy that took place this week, I still don't think the police should be routinely armed. For a start, I don't think it would have altered the outcome of the even that took place - the man who killed them was intent on ambushing them, and no-one would have had a chance to respond and defend themselves.
But secondly, it would alter wholesale the make-up of our police force. We need people from areas of society to be in our force, so that we can have the range of support to the public that we now enjoy. If all policemen had to carry guns, then there would be many people who would think twice about joining, and our police force would be the poorer for it. We would end up having a much harder and less approachable police force, and I think that would be to the detriment of our society.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

68 Police shot dead in the USA in 2011, where police are armed
0 Police shot dead in the UK in 2011, where police are not armed

Guns held by US police force 897,400 at an approximate total cost of £180,000,000
Guns held by UK police forces 7,835, at an approximate total cost of £1,567,000

Guns really only cost £200 on average ? Shit - I need to get one of those guns they carry at Gatwick for that price !!!!!

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

An absolute tragedy for the two Officers who lost their lives. RIP. I admire the job that society expects the Police to do, but am not sure they should all be armed. There are many factors to consider. We don't know the full extent of incidents across the UK that would require an armed response. I guess there will be a much smaller number of incidents (but still too many) where the 'bad guy' sets out to kill Police Officers in a pre-meditated way. Wasn't there an unarmed Manchester Detective who was fatally stabbed after knocking on the door of what turned out to be a terrorist's house? Did he have any chance to defend himself? I guess there is always going to be a risk that a seemingly routine incident may become something much more sinister.

It is inevitable that the debate about arming all Police Officers will kick off again after this horrible incident. But the question has to be asked 'was this incident reasonably forseeable in any way?' Ok we have been told this appeared to be a report of a routine burglary. Was there any other intelligence that might have led to a different response by the Police, rather than send two unarmed Officers? I imagine that Greater Manchester Police are turning themselves inside out to establish if this was avoidable. If it was then their deaths might have been avoided.

I imagine that each force determines the minimum numbers of armed officers on duty at any time according to the nature of the risks and specific intelligence about their area. So the Met or Greater Manchester might have different numbers to say Sussex or Norfolk. Excluding the specific requirements at Gatwick I guess there are only a handful of armed Officers on the road in Sussex at any one time plus maybe a few backup based at strategic points.

I guess it is for each Chief Constable to weigh up the risk to his / her officers by not arming them all and deciding if the response time for armed units to provide back up for those unarmed officers is 'acceptable'. Clearly that assessment also needs instruction to unarmed Officers on evaluating the risks and taking a defensive position while upgrading to an armed response, even though they are charged with protecting the public. However in this case it appears there was no prior warning that the Officers were being lured into an ambush so may have little or no chance for the Officers to defend themselves. Although there was one media report of a tazer being found at the scene which hints at the Officers attempting to defend themselves. Maybe it all kicked off after that? Will be interesting to see if there are any witnesses to assist. If you are an unarmed Officer I guess the time waiting for an armed response will seem like a lifetime, especially if there is someone determined to attack you. Horrendous scenario.

OK it won't change the outcome but will also be interesting to know the timescales from when the two Officers arrived on scene, how quickly the incident was upgraded, the armed response was mobilised and and arrived at the Manchester attack. I don't expect all officers to be armed but would expect the armed response procedures to be reviewed to verify if it can be reasonably improved.

 

[Bladders]

I actually saw a copper yesterday with a holster and side arm in Eastbourne. He was chatting to some bloke in an old white van.

Didn't see any other Police in the area and he seemed quite relaxed, no raid looked imminent so not sure why he was armed.

 

[perseus]

Three-legged Man and a Cat with no Tail

Beware of one armed bandits and especially a PC with no arms.

 

[magoo]

I saw the new Sweeney film the other day. If that's anything to go by then the Police can't shoot for shit, so no, don't arm the useless divs.