[Politics] Should she stay or should she go now?

[DavidinSouthampton]

Try not to worry if you are but really that’s just not going to happen is it? Nobody is going to die as a result of no deal Brexit. We might have to put up with costs rising and inconvenience but we are not going to need Bob Geldorf or Medicines Sans Frontier putting up tents in Parks to administer drugs to the British population. It’s just not going to happen. Total Project Fear, reminds me of the Mill.Bug scare mongering, Ebola, Bird Flu and other Hollywood inspired scenarios. Won’t be long before the Zombie apocalypse is cited

AS TB has already pointed out herself, the original post was just about the need to have trade deals in place. The whole thing just shows:
1. The inability of Brexiteers to think things through.
2. Their total lack of caring about the grief it might cause for those who will have to sort their sh1t out.
3. The paranoia of the BREXIT camp, as shown by your OTT response.

And the Zombie Apocalypse is planned for March 30th, 2019.

 

[The Gem]

And the Zombie Apocalypse is planned for March 30th, 2019.

I knew that was coming......

 

[sully]

So when you first voted remain what made you vote that way?

scared of change?

You were a great player Sully, but you can't swing me on this and there is no point in trying as I am looking at the big picture and future for my children not the short-term disruption.

I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, just saying we should check now that everyone has more information. I voted remain because I think it’s best for the country overall and didn’t believe all the nonsense being spouted by either side in the campaign. It was telling that those who “won” ran to the hills at the earliest opportunity rather than rolling their sleeves up and making it happen.

Not scared it should not happen, as rules are rules, end of, its only limp Britain that are having tantrums because they want to skip through fields of vines with the Europeans, if they want it that much they should be heading off to Dover.

I am happy to wave them off.

What rules?

The ones that say a 65% vote means you’ve lost but 52% means you’ve won?

 

[portlock seagull]

I said if it is a No Deal The government shouldn't let a No Deal happen but it is a fact that pharmacies have been told to stockpile medicines.
Theresa May herself is insulin dependent.

My reason for posting those two professional links, is not Project Fear but to point out that we do need trade agreements in place.
Enjoy your sarcasm.

Do you think people will die then because trade agreement or not, insulin will run out because of Brexit?

 

[portlock seagull]

AS TB has already pointed out herself, the original post was just about the need to have trade deals in place. The whole thing just shows:
1. The inability of Brexiteers to think things through.
2. Their total lack of caring about the grief it might cause for those who will have to sort their sh1t out.
3. The paranoia of the BREXIT camp, as shown by your OTT response.

And the Zombie Apocalypse is planned for March 30th, 2019.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Do you think people will die then because trade agreement or not, insulin will run out because of Brexit?

I hope not, but nothing is certain. Pharmacies are stockpiling so hopefully any agreements can be in place so it doesn't come to that.

 

[vegster]

AS TB has already pointed out herself, the original post was just about the need to have trade deals in place. The whole thing just shows:
1. The inability of Brexiteers to think things through.
2. Their total lack of caring about the grief it might cause for those who will have to sort their sh1t out.
3. The paranoia of the BREXIT camp, as shown by your OTT response.

And the Zombie Apocalypse is planned for March 30th, 2019.

What else would you expect from a zombie Prime Minister ?

 

[vegster]

I said if it is a No Deal The government shouldn't let a No Deal happen but it is a fact that pharmacies have been told to stockpile medicines.
Theresa May herself is insulin dependent.

My reason for posting those two professional links, is not Project Fear but to point out that we do need trade agreements in place.
Enjoy your sarcasm.

I think too many people just "Assume" that everything will carry on exactly as normal and that an Insulin shortage is unthinkable, however, Insulin is probably one of dozens of highly important items that may get delayed due to paperwork and Custom's checks and confusion when we first split.

 

[portlock seagull]

I hope not, but nothing is certain. Pharmacies are stockpiling so hopefully any agreements can be in place so it doesn't come to that.

People die at the moment...how will they determine / measure if Brexit's to blame? Do Aid Agencies need 'trade agreements' to get medicines through to those in need?

 

[portlock seagull]

I think too many people just "Assume" that everything will carry on exactly as normal and that an Insulin shortage is unthinkable, however, Insulin is probably one of dozens of highly important items that may get delayed due to paperwork and Custom's checks and confusion when we first split.

Won't happen. Not assuming, it just won't. No one's pretending there won't be pain along the way and shocks but even then, it needs to be seen in the context of existing problems - there's a danger everyone blames Brexit for absolutely everything and pretends nothing went wrong before. Don't forget much of the (scare) stock piling is actually profit-guarding rather than life-dependency. We also 'physically check' relatively little regardless of origin and as for 'paperwork'...it's 2018 and most supply chains are now heavily automated and tech-driven. Gone are the days when we attached different coloured tags denoting status at customs

 

[lawros left foot]

People die at the moment...how will they determine / measure if Brexit's to blame? Do Aid Agencies need 'trade agreements' to get medicines through to those in need?

I’m insulin dependent, I’m really looking forward to the extra worry of whether I will have enough life saving medicine after 29 March, I hope the Aid Agency’s aren’t too busy in countries that haven’t got in this situation through their own stupidity.

 

[WATFORD zero]

We also 'physically check' relatively little regardless of origin and as for 'paperwork'...it's 2018 and most supply chains are now heavily automated and tech-driven. Gone are the days when we attached different coloured tags denoting status at customs

Automation and technology do help things to run extremely efficiently. As long as no one wants to change all the rules on which all this automation and technology operate

 

[GT49er]

I can't argue against any of this but I will add that over the last 20-30 years with the demise of trade union rights, the wealthy and big business have become ever more adept at increasing their wealth at the expense of the many.

Society is crumbling from the bottom up despite May's trumpeting of the fact that there are more people than ever in jobs. Too many of these jobs are minimum wage or 10p an hour over it so that the government itself has created a pool of cheap labour to be exploited All this talk of the best way out of poverty is to have a job does not stand up when people are IN jobs yet rely on benefits to get by and their only pay rise is when the government increases the Personal Tax allowance threshold or the Minimum Wage. Subsequently tax returns are minimal from so many workers and those with the cash have ever more clever ways to avoid paying their share

We are told that we must all work and i'm genuinely surprised that Mr's May hasn't recycled the old " Work Sets Us Free " mantra as she loves those little soundbites. So we have a huge pool of people in poorly paid work ( I've been looking for a new job for the last 6 months and nearly all I see is jobs working in The Co-Op, Marks, Sainsburys, Asda etc ) who are fundamentally fed up with their lot who voted for Brexit.

But Brexit was never about pouring money in to these peoples pockets, it was the rich Tory boys thinking how to increase their margins by shredding EU standards, guidelines and such working rights as we have left. Don't forget, even with the best possible Brexit we will all be told to tighten our belts and work harder to compete in the global market. No sunny uplands i'm afraid.

You were doing so well - up until your final paragraph!

"Over the last 20-30 years with the demise of trade union rights, the wealthy and big business have become ever more adept at increasing their wealth at the expense of the many." "Society is crumbling from the bottom up." "Too many of these jobs are minimum wage or 10p an hour over it." "People IN jobs yet rely on benefits to get by and their only pay rise is when the government increases the Personal Tax allowance threshold or the Minimum Wage." "So we have a huge pool of people in poorly paid work who are fundamentally fed up with their lot who voted for Brexit."

All perfectly accurate; all in all a very fine piece of analysis. The last bit is the most telling though - 'fed up with their lot and voted Brexit.' Yes, that's right - because all this has happened on the EU's watch. This is what nearly 40 years of being in Europe has done for us. That's why 52% voted leave.
In the mid 1970s, when we joined, the gap between the richest and the poorest in the UK was the lowest it has ever been - since 1974 the gap has widened exponentially, year by year by year. The rich have just got richer and richer in the EU - no wonder the establishment are desperate not to leave it! Well, if that's the sort of economy that's supposed to get worse if we leave, so what? The weakness with the remain argument, then and now, is that it can't see past 'the economy'. That's why it lost the referendum.

 

[Two Professors]

I do believe that medicines,even insulin,are readily available in other parts of the World.Or is somebody claiming the EU is the only provider?

 

[portlock seagull]

Automation and technology do help things to run extremely efficiently. As long as no one wants to change all the rules on which all this automation and technology operate

Yes, we can all say that about everything though and I'm sure there's plenty of competent people on here that 'make rules' for a living in their businesses.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes, we can all say that about everything though and I'm sure there's plenty of competent people on here that 'make rules' for a living in their businesses.

Yes, I did for years, which was why I pointed it out.

So yet again it's 'I don't understand what to do but I'm sure it will be OK if I leave it to others'.

Not the most convincing argument I've ever heard

 

[portlock seagull]

I’m insulin dependent, I’m really looking forward to the extra worry of whether I will have enough life saving medicine after 29 March, I hope the Aid Agency’s aren’t too busy in countries that haven’t got in this situation through their own stupidity.

Then you're worrying unnecessarily. You could choose to worry about all manner of things including insulin dependency right now. What if, what if, what if etc? Equally I could about my needs, my families needs etc. There's no point however, we all have to trust every single day that things will get done, happen as we expect for just about everything, major and minor. It's just too easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater re: Brexit and say everything's going to go wrong/ it's all TM's fault. It won't and it isn't.

 

[portlock seagull]

Yes, I did for years, which was why I pointed it out.

So yet again it's 'I don't understand what to do but I'm sure it will be OK if I leave it to others'.

Not the most convincing argument I've ever heard

I never said that, you chose to interpret as. But that's your choice. Wrong as it is. I think we've all learnt by now that whatever side you sit on, there's little point trying to convince someone on the other because everyone's so hard-wired as you've demonstrated. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm merely certain that Brexit will cause pain but we'll all survive...and who knows, we might all be better off in the long run. That's if it even happens at all of course which I hope it doesn't.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I never said that, you chose to interpret as. But that's your choice. Wrong as it is. I think we've all learnt by now that whatever side you sit on, there's little point trying to convince someone on the other because everyone's so hard-wired as you've demonstrated. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm merely certain that Brexit will cause pain but we'll all survive...and who knows, we might all be better off in the long run. That's if it even happens at all of course which I hope it doesn't.

I'm sorry but I personally need a little more than 'I'm sure it will be alright in the end' before I commit mine and my kids future.

Who knows, you may be right. Everything I have seen, experienced myself and heard and read from people with expertise in that area says you're wrong but, hopefully, and I am confident, none of us will have to find out

 

[vegster]

You were doing so well - up until your final paragraph!

"Over the last 20-30 years with the demise of trade union rights, the wealthy and big business have become ever more adept at increasing their wealth at the expense of the many." "Society is crumbling from the bottom up." "Too many of these jobs are minimum wage or 10p an hour over it." "People IN jobs yet rely on benefits to get by and their only pay rise is when the government increases the Personal Tax allowance threshold or the Minimum Wage." "So we have a huge pool of people in poorly paid work who are fundamentally fed up with their lot who voted for Brexit."

All perfectly accurate; all in all a very fine piece of analysis. The last bit is the most telling though - 'fed up with their lot and voted Brexit.' Yes, that's right - because all this has happened on the EU's watch. This is what nearly 40 years of being in Europe has done for us. That's why 52% voted leave.
In the mid 1970s, when we joined, the gap between the richest and the poorest in the UK was the lowest it has ever been - since 1974 the gap has widened exponentially, year by year by year. The rich have just got richer and richer in the EU - no wonder the establishment are desperate not to leave it! Well, if that's the sort of economy that's supposed to get worse if we leave, so what? The weakness with the remain argument, then and now, is that it can't see past 'the economy'. That's why it lost the referendum.

For balance maybe you could research the gap between the richest and the poorest in say 2/3 EU countries to see how they compare ? So easy to blame the EU for causing this gap but you forget how the Tories adopted and embraced their policy of Austerity post 2010. Then throw in the fact we have weasled and whinged our way out of EU rules we regarded as " Bad for Business ".