[Politics] Should NATO send in troops and planes

[birthofanorange]

NATO is not a defensive alliance, it is a "join us or get bombed by us and/our member states" alliance.

There's also nothing that indicates that "it's not there to 'protect' Ukraine and other non-members"... if this is the case, why the involvement in Yugoslavia in the 90s?

You astound me with your crap. "Join us or get bombed...." **** me.

 

[AmexRuislip]

NATO is not a defensive alliance, it is a "join us or get bombed by us and/our member states" alliance.

There's also nothing that indicates that "it's not there to 'protect' Ukraine and other non-members"... if this is the case, why the involvement in Yugoslavia in the 90s?

Yes it is.
NATO exists to defend its members.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It seems harsh, when put that way, but you are correct.
If (and it's a big IF), the world comes through this, somehow, things will never be the same again. I'd like to think (being a bit of an old hippy-type) that it will bring the world closer together, so the horror that Ukraine is going through is never repeated.
Naive? Probably. Hopeful? Yes. Likely? Toss a coin.

I am hoping that this is the war that shows the planet in the 21st century is now so interlinked that rampant nationalism and military conflict can always be outmaneuvered by sensible multi-national economic/technical efforts.

The real question is how successful Russia's economic/technical investments have been in the last 10 years. They have obviously planned and invested well, but I still believe that morality will overcome in the end. The Hippie generation

 

[usernamed]

Yes, that's exactly where the boundary is set and that is what defines NATO. An attack on any NATO country is an attack on NATO. An attack on any non-NATO country is not an attack on NATO. NATO is a defensive alliance to protect it's members from the Putin's of the world. It's not there to protect Ukraine and other non-members.

So being part of NATO forces us to sit on our hands while Ukraine plays out?

Or is that a choice we’re making? What if Putin goes for every non-NATO country in and around Europe? Do all the NATO nations stand around with their hands in their pockets, whistling awkwardly and avoiding eye contact with each other?

My understanding is that Ukraine wanted to join NATO, but this requires unanimous agreement among existing members, and 3 (unnamed) states rejected their request to join. So, Ukraine as a nation has asked for NATO’s protection, has been denied it by a minority of members, and and that means all NATO countries all just watch from the sidelines.

 

[Braggfan]

It's not so much the entire obliteration that scares me. If we did have a nuclear war and we were all quickly obliterated, then that's that. No, what really concerns me is having a nuclear war, and surviving. What will life be like after that - unimaginable really.

If there's a nuclear war involving Russia and the US, there's no surviving. That's why they call it "mutually assured destruction".

 

[Icy Gull]

You astound me with your crap. "Join us or get bombed...." **** me.

I like Swanny but Christ he can be a right plonker sometimes

 

[Leekbrookgull]

An absolute No,no its what Putin wants.

 

[Icy Gull]

An absolute No,no its what Putin wants.

A man who is TERRIFIED of catching Covid would rather guarantee to die in a Nuclear war, I am not convinced but I hesitate at calling his bluff

 

[Swansman]

I like Swanny but Christ he can be a right plonker sometimes

I like people in general but shit, do they have some strange ideas about the world. People buying into all of this "all we want in the West is peace, love and prosperity for all" when all evidence points at the opposite. NATO is about making sure no one is able or willing to defend themselves from us exploiting them.

 

[Seagull58]

If Putin is prepared to press the button in retaliation against a non nuclear defence of Ukrain, he'd be perpared to press the button in a pre-emptive tactical strike against the west. Why not?

On the other hand if there is a fear he can be provoked into using nuclear weapons by any military move against him this ties our hands. His threat is to use nuclear weapons if we do anything.

So, given that, I . . . . don't know what we should do, and expect we will do nothing, and that means Putin has already won.

Perhaps there are plans in place about which we know nothing. In the UK we have the Cobra committee (what's that I hear? The sound of someone laugh-spitting a mouthful of beer?). And the US could use the Star Wars system developed by Reagan, right?

In any case the massive lot of nuclear weapons held by the US could be deployed before Putin could launch his, surely?

Failing that the US could shoot his nukes out of the sky, er, couldn't they?

Incidentally, where does this leave UK's 'independent nuclear deterrant'? We must have it for a reason. Are we only allowed to use it if Putin has already launched his weapons? And if so, what's the point of that?

Forgive me for naivety, but what has our diplomatic and military strategy, and indeed its political management, been all about for the last 50 years? Did we not have any contingency for dealing with a leader of a nation with nukes who says 'I will do what I want, and if you try to stop me I'll nuke you'? It doesn't look like we had any. Have we always been this ill prepared, or have we taken our eye off the ball with all the hubris about evil Blair and the war against fake WMDs, followed by evil Europe and the great Brexit victory? And in America, the war against Crooked Hilary, and the great victory against fake news.

Dear oh dear. No wonder Putin is so emboldened.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_192695.htm
NATO has a plan and is now executing it. I doubt they are going to tell us in detail what it is.

 

[birthofanorange]

I like people in general but shit, do they have some strange ideas about the world. People buying into all of this "all we want in the West is peace, love and prosperity for all" when all evidence points at the opposite. NATO is about making sure no one is able or willing to defend themselves from us exploiting them.

Leave it. Please.

 

[birthofanorange]

I like Swanny but Christ he can be a right plonker sometimes

Yes, I fully concur, and I have no beef with him (mad though he is), but sometimes....grrr!

 

[AmexRuislip]

I like people in general but shit, do they have some strange ideas about the world. People buying into all of this "all we want in the West is peace, love and prosperity for all" when all evidence points at the opposite. NATO is about making sure no one is able or willing to defend themselves from us exploiting them.

Isn't this the opposite of what you've already stated

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I like people in general but shit, do they have some strange ideas about the world. People buying into all of this "all we want in the West is peace, love and prosperity for all" when all evidence points at the opposite. NATO is about making sure no one is able or willing to defend themselves from us exploiting them.

Do you play call of duty

Regards
DF

 

[Icy Gull]

I like people in general but shit, do they have some strange ideas about the world. People buying into all of this "all we want in the West is peace, love and prosperity for all" when all evidence points at the opposite. NATO is about making sure no one is able or willing to defend themselves from us exploiting them.

Which basically stable countries has NATO invaded and razed cities to the ground,in, actively targeting civilians?

Give me a list please

 

[Swansman]

Which basically stable countries has NATO invaded and razed cities to the ground,in, actively targeting civilians?

Give me a list please

Under NATO flag or under "we're an alliance of NATO members but its inappropriate to use the NATO flag while bombing this third world country"?

 

[Seagull58]

It seems harsh, when put that way, but you are correct.
If (and it's a big IF), the world comes through this, somehow, things will never be the same again. I'd like to think (being a bit of an old hippy-type) that it will bring the world closer together, so the horror that Ukraine is going through is never repeated.
Naive? Probably. Hopeful? Yes. Likely? Toss a coin.

I am hopeful that the economic sanctions combined with a guerilla war in Ukraine will either lead to Putin backing off or to regime change in Moscow. Possibly one of his generals or Duma advisors will put a bullet in his head or cart him off to a dacha under house arrest (probably followed by a bullet in the head) when the internal situation deteriorates too far. I'm sure he knows that attacking any NATO country is a red line that he must not cross.

 

[Baker lite]

NATO is not a defensive alliance, it is a "join us or get bombed by us and/our member states" alliance.

There's also nothing that indicates that "it's not there to 'protect' Ukraine and other non-members"... if this is the case, why the involvement in Yugoslavia in the 90s?

Christ on a small horse [emoji2359]

 

[Icy Gull]

Under NATO flag or under "we're an alliance of NATO members but its inappropriate to use the NATO flag while bombing this third world country"?

Either

 

[lawros left foot]

In the 80s I attended several courses on the nuclear chemical and,biological capabilities of the Warsaw pact countries. Truly terrifying stuff.
20 nuclear weapons of that era, if used against the UK, would make life untenable for at least 1500 years. If the blast didn't get you, and for most it would, then massive radiation levels would do for you.If by some miracle you did survive, a global nuclear winter would encapsulate the whole globe, meaning the complete obliteration of eco systems ,leading to starvation of anyone left, worldwide.

Since then, Russia has 'improved' it's nuclear arsenal, when they still have more than 5,000.