[Football] Should Maty Ryan boycott the Asia Cup?

[Triggaaar]

As I quoted before, even the govt says we are separate countries.

And I've explained why that doesn't mean anything.

The referendum issue has cropped up several times for Scotland but there hasn't been as big a demand for independence as the nationalists have made out. I am certain that given stronger appeals, that they could achieve it.

But only if the UK decides to allow it. That's the point, it's the UK's decision. Meanwhile, the countries in the EU can leave without having the EU's permission. The countries have their own governments which can decide. We (England) don't.

I also believe that if there was a strong clamour for leaving the UK, then England would be granted that right.

The key point being that we need to be granted the right. Countries don't need someone else to grant the right.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Even? As I've said, of course our government has to say it is. Saying you're a country doesn't make you one.

You are saying that because you don't agree with that one interpretation, then it isn't true. I can accept that England may not be recognised in international law as a distinct country but that doesn't stop the place being a country.It is a physical and ideological place.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

West Sussex and East Sussex are, in law, both distinct places as they are administered differently. However, in history and in the minds of the people, they are usually 'Sussex'. One may argue that one could interpose East Sussex or West Sussex for England and argue along the same lines. Sussex isn't really a county....

 

[Triggaaar]

You are saying that because you don't agree with that one interpretation, then it isn't true.

No. There is not interpretation that you can look up that says 'a nation is a country if the politicians of that nation say so'. It's not just an interpretation I don't agree with, it's an interpretation that doesn't exist.

It is a physical and ideological place.

So is Texas. That isn't part of the definition of a country.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

No. There is not interpretation that you can look up that says 'a nation is a country if the politicians of that nation say so'. It's not just an interpretation I don't agree with, it's an interpretation that doesn't exist.

So is Texas. That isn't part of the definition of a country.

On the first point, words and their interpretation are never easy. Their meanings change in time and alter in their strength. If enough people perceive and interpret a word a certain way, then that word and interpretation is upheld over time as the true or a true meaning. The same principle here exists as many if not most of our people would regard England as a country, therefore it is a country. Just as wicked can mean two things so can country. To you it means one thing but that is certainly not my definition of a country as I believe it to be less precise and more down to feeling, place and history.

Texas is an interesting point, except that it hasn't ever been a country or at least an established one. It was IMO a country in fledgling form but the Union stopped most of that.

 

[Triggaaar]

On the first point, words and their interpretation are never easy. Their meanings change in time and alter in their strength. If enough people perceive and interpret a word a certain way, then that word and interpretation is upheld over time as the true or a true meaning. The same principle here exists as many if not most of our people would regard England as a country, therefore it is a country. Just as wicked can mean two things so can country. To you it means one thing but that is certainly not my definition of a country as I believe it to be less precise and more down to feeling, place and history.

I understand your point about language changing over time, but most the meaning of country has not yet changed, and people calling England a country are doing it by mistake, not because they're deliberately using the word differently (we with 'wicked' etc).

Texas is an interesting point, except that it hasn't ever been a country or at least an established one

Stop there, it was just an example of somewhere that is a physical and ideological place. So are many other places, like Hong Kong (whose citizens would love it to be a country, but it just isn't).

 

[BN9 BHA]

Some (not me) would even argue that Australia isn't even a real country. A place where the most known citizen was a man that had his ears cut off in prison.
.

Wait, what? Nobody told me this happened, how did Mick Dundee end up in prison anyway?

 

[nicko31]

That's fair enough

I would prefer it if England was a country.

Its work in progress, be patient....

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Dullards.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I understand your point about language changing over time, but most the meaning of country has not yet changed, and people calling England a country are doing it by mistake, not because they're deliberately using the word differently (we with 'wicked' etc).

Stop there, it was just an example of somewhere that is a physical and ideological place. So are many other places, like Hong Kong (whose citizens would love it to be a country, but it just isn't).

So you tell me to stop about Texas but appear to agree the point as it wasn't ever a country. England is rather different as it was a country for around 700 years so there's no comparison. The meaning of country has changed as many of the examples you and others have given such as passports didn't even exist when Enlgand became established as a country. If you bother to read, as I have this afternoon you will see that 'country' is as I suggest a rather loose term which has several different meanings and can mean different things to different people. The word originates from Old French and meant 'land' and that's mostly how I see it.

 

[Two Professors]

I guess there are only 4 countries in the world

England
Wales
Scotland
Northern Ireland

Anyone else is a sovereign state (or maybe an unofficial one like Kosovo)

Or Eire- half a sovereign,or maybe one eighth.Two bob anyway.

 

[Triggaaar]

So you tell me to stop about Texas but appear to agree the point as it wasn't ever a country.

Eh? Texas was a random place I mentioned, because your argument for England being a country was that it is 'a physical and ideological place'.

England is rather different as it was a country for around 700 years so there's no comparison.

I agree it's not very comparable, but then don't use daft criteria such as 'a physical and ideological place'.

The meaning of country has changed as many of the examples you and others have given such as passports didn't even exist when Enlgand became established as a country.

I didn't use passports as an example, because passports isn't one of the criteria used in descriptions online. That someone else has guessed at passports being relevant doesn't change things.

If you bother to read, as I have this afternoon you will see that 'country' is as I suggest a rather loose term which has several different meanings and can mean different things to different people. The word originates from Old French and meant 'land' and that's mostly how I see it.

Lol. So you've had a little read this afternoon, and tried to find things that support the point of view you started with. I've read a lot about it before.

You see country as meaning 'land'. So you can go onto rightmove and buy your own country in Brighton. Regardless of the origin of the word, that is not what the word means.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Eh? Texas was a random place I mentioned, because your argument for England being a country was that it is 'a physical and ideological place'.

I agree it's not very comparable, but then don't use daft criteria such as 'a physical and ideological place'.

I didn't use passports as an example, because passports isn't one of the criteria used in descriptions online. That someone else has guessed at passports being relevant doesn't change things.

Lol. So you've had a little read this afternoon, and tried to find things that support the point of view you started with. I've read a lot about it before.

You see country as meaning 'land'. So you can go onto rightmove and buy your own country in Brighton. Regardless of the origin of the word, that is not what the word means.

East is East and West is West. I haven't just had a little read this afternoon to back up my belief but to try to understand your belief and if you honestly Google a host of stuff about the word country, you will see there is a great deal of disagreement and also no clear cut definition.

 

[ac gull]

No he shouldn't

 

[mreprice]

If you aren't at the Olympics you're not a country

 

[knocky1]

If you aren't at the Olympics you're not a country

Determined by McDonalds, KFC and Coca Cola.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Hughton keeping cards close to his chest as to when he will be off too.

Apparently Australia squad meeting up on 26th December in the Middle East, so will he miss Arsenal? Or will he get dispensation? I'd say definitely Everton will be his last game at best as he'll need to be at the tournament by the 1st January.

Sky suggesting he will play the Boxing Day game

 

[Jimmy Come Lately]

If we're lucky Maty's booked on a flight out of Gatwick and won't be going anywhere.

 

[jamie the seagull]

It's not Maty I have a problem with.
It's Jahanbaksh who we have not rushed back to ensure full fitness.
Just when he is ready he too flies of to Asia...

 

[GT49er]

It's not Maty I have a problem with.
It's Jahanbaksh who we have not rushed back to ensure full fitness.
Just when he is ready he too flies of to Asia...

Hope he does well.





With luck he'll attract some good offers from the J League....................