[Politics] Should England go it alone?

[vegster]

Could Scotland and or Wales actually survive as a functioning country without the Westminster subsidies?

Let's see ? In the words of the song " If you Love someone set them free " ...I can't see them wanting to stay a part of a united kingdom the way Johnson and Co are behaving . What next shame lies ahead for us ?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Probably never have another Labour Govt. if they go.

Personally I want the Union to survive.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Could Scotland and or Wales actually survive as a functioning country without the Westminster subsidies?

Well that would be an argument for the referendum campaigns but they could well vote to try.

The big worry is that Johnson is so toxic in Scotland that it could become a vote on him.

Best give them the vote though, maybe in 4 or 5 years time after Johnson is long gone.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The question was - should England go it alone? My answer would have to be 'yes', but only because we have Brexited and have a First Past The Post electoral system that effectively disenfranchises Scotland and Northern Ireland. Ergo, they should be allowed to go their own way and become independent states within the EU or - in the case of NI - choose to join the Republic of Ireland if they wish.

There is no fundamental reason why Scotland should not succeed as an independent member state of the EU and - despite people saying Spain would object - I do not believe the EU would let Spain veto Scotland's membership. A great number of present EU states were once former members of greater states (USSR, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia). NI would be accepted if it preserved the Good Friday Agreement.

Scotland's population size is similar to Denmark, Finland and Slovakia and is larger than Ireland, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Latvia, Estonia, Cyprus, Luxembourg and Malta. Indeed, Northern Ireland's population is also larger than the last 5 states listed.

I believe that an independent Scotland would do very well in the EU. Ireland have reaped the benefits of being an EU member , English-speaking nation and I think Scotland would be successful at attracting business wanting to be located in the EU, both globally and English businesses that might be happy to relocate their HQ on the mainland.


I find the relationship between the English and Scots dysfunctional and unhealthy, but mainly from the English side. We are a patronising, xenophobic nation and we talk down to Scotland. Part of me would love to see them have the balls to cut themselves loose from Westminster, flourish within the EU and - who knows - rediscover closer ties with their Nordic neighbours.

In time, I think if NI and Scotland flourished then Wales may look for independence too.

I think by being the greater part of the UK English identity has been surpressed, and the break-up of the Union may help to promote and grow English culture.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Probably never have another Labour Govt. if they go.

Personally I want the Union to survive.

Which means Conservatives in perpetuity. Partly explains why they're damaging the union with every action they take

 

[faoileán]

If I were Scottish would I want to be associated with:

- the ongoing slow-motion Brexit carcrash?
- breaking international law by shafting the N.ireland Protocol to shore-up a few Unionist votes in Parliament?
- the current low-calibre low morals government?
- dumping refugees in Rwanda?

I don't think I would...

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

If I could vote to get independence from the law breaking Dimwit of DownIt Street I would as well.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I guess the question is what would be different i.e. can someone spell out the tangible benefits of a split. I asked the same question regards Brexit and never got a definitive answer. Yes there was some response about making your own laws but no one could really point to bad EU laws. Personally would prefer not to focus on nationalism and nation states but concentrate on solving world wide problems which affect us all.
M,

 

[Lenny Rider]

Let's see ? In the words of the song " If you Love someone set them free " ...I can't see them wanting to stay a part of a united kingdom the way Johnson and Co are behaving . What next shame lies ahead for us ?

But how long has Johnson got?

 

[zefarelly]

It's not question of England going it alone, more a question of being dumped and left.

Scotland will be first, but they'll all go like rats leaving a sinking ship. . . . and the ship is sinking.

 

[rippleman]

If the question was ‘Should Sussex go it alone’ it would be a resounding YES, from me.

Reinstate the ancient kingdom of the South Saxons, and do away with this East Sussex, West Sussex,nonsense.

You hear no argument from me on that score.

Bit of a tangent on this East / West thing. I thought it was something that happened in the early 1970s but reading an article by a local historian, it appears that when Sussex rebelled against the invaders from Wessex (to force us from our pagan ways to believe all that bible malarkey) there were two Sussex kings who led rebel armies. One in the East of the county and another in the West.



HAPPY SUSSEX DAY TOMORROW!!

 

[Simster]

fair enough. so what are the issues that have driven the upsurge in nationalism since the 80's? this occured well before Brexit, 45% in favour back in 2014.

they have more funding per capita, control of policy and executive agency in health, education, policing and law (own legal system), social services, housing, transport, environment, agriculture and local government, etc. what will independence enable?

Well since the 70s there have only been about 12 years of non-Tory government - I'd say that was a compelling argument for freedom in itself. If I was Scottish I'd probably feel I was little more than part of an English colony, given they only ever get governments elected by the English.

Independence would enable them to at least ask to re-join the EU (or the SM & CU in the short term), and they wouldn't have to have Trident on their land. I'm pretty sure there are other benefits.

 

[dangull]

Devolution by Blairs government was actually meant to help protect the Union. Instead the SNP just said thanks for that, but we might as well go for the rest of it now.

 

[dangull]

Ukraine as part of the USSR fought in the decisive campaign that decided WW2. Today they are fighting with each other.
Not saying that will happen between England and Scotland in the future though.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

My Dad is English and my mum is Scottish so I guess I’m team
GB when it suits me, like the Olympics and Murray at Wimbledon. I quite like GB but probably consider myself English because I was born here and have always lived here. I live in Liverpool now, which is almost a little country all of its own.

 

[beorhthelm]

Could Scotland and or Wales actually survive as a functioning country without the Westminster subsidies?

economic analysis last time round said they'd struggle. SNP bases its future finances on retaining all oil fields and all its financial services. with green policies and no reserve bank those are very sketchy assumptions.

 

[Pavilionaire]

economic analysis last time round said they'd struggle. SNP bases its future finances on retaining all oil fields and all its financial services. with green policies and no reserve bank those are very sketchy assumptions.

I would imagine Scotland would do very well attracting businesses to base themselves there if they are part of the Single Market.

It is bad enough dealing with the extra Brexit red tape and customs payments from the cosy South-East, but imagine trying to export goods to the EU from a further 350 miles away from the continent. Brexit has hit the whisky and seafood industries particularly hard.

 

[nicko31]

Sturgeon names October 23 2023 as date for a vote. Will the Supreme court stop her?

 

[Hamilton]

I didn’t vote to leave the EU, so I’m unlikely to think that English independence is a good thing.

I believe in taking down borders, not putting them up.

That’s where Sturgeon’s ideology comes unstuck. Even before Brexit she was pro-EU. Leaving the Union now will not guarantee entry to the EU. So, this is an emotional ideological vote and nothing more.

Brexit has happened and the best we can do now is genuinely stick together and build a better country. That’s not done through division.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Would your government accept the outcome of such a vote?

All fun and games until they want some stuff in the North Sea.

No.

We (the English) own Wales, Scotland and Ulster, but have subsumed them into a larger entity where they have equal rights (the UK). The two main political parties have seen Scotland as a place for secure votes (Labour - till the SNP came along and took them all), for oil and for somewhere for good fishing and shooting (tories).

The bit I don't really understand is why anyone from Wales or Scotland would want to be part of GB. I guess that if you have no strong sense of nationalism, why rock the boat? It isn't as if we English exploit them (any more). In fact we subsidise them.

Personally I am therefore torn between indifference and having a hard border across the Severn and up very north somewhere (just south of Burnley would be fine).

I can see Johnson allowing a referendum as a sideshow and distraction from the plundering of the UK's wealth by him and his chums. After all, the same wheeze worked perfectly previously (Brexit) and, just as then, the outcome is largely irrelevant. To the rich.