Shoreham air disaster

[Dorset Seagull]

It sounds like it was the organisers inability to plan properly that could be the major cause. Ok the pilot made errors but surely the onus is on the organisers to ensure that if errors are made by pilots then there is a plan in place to mitigate the damage thereafter

 

[father_and_son]

Reading through the full report I think there may be a few others facing various charges relating to this. Seems that the plane was not properly looked after during its down time and that, although it had the necessary Permits to fly, the lack of/inappropriate maintenance means that these weren't actually valid (I guess like having car insurance, but no driving licence, thereby nullifying the validity of the insurance).

I assume it will take some time to trace everyone who "had a hand" in the maintenance and establishing who wasn't doing what they should have been. Whether or not this had a direct impact on the fact the crash happened or the consequences of it happening, I'm sure this won't be allowed to go uninvestigated or even, investigated quietly, because of the surrounding publicity from the "pilot error" aspects.

 

[LamieRobertson]

An incredibly sad day it was....I hope the relatives of those that died are suitably informed about this report and the ongoing process

 

[mikeyjh]

Seems a bit dodgy releasing a statement like that when the report cites both pilot errors and ineffective planning etc?

It's a very unfortunate turn of phrase, pilots make errors all the time just like drivers do, that's why there are fail safes and procedures to help prevent the plane from crashing. If you've ever watched 'Air Crash Investigation', you'd know that almost all crashes are as a result of a 'series of errors'. Hope that lessons are learned of course but sadly I suspect we've seen the last of the Shoreham Airshow.

 

[The Clamp]

I'm sure an early report last year mentioned that the pilot had handed in pre flight reports and plans at other air shows but had then just gone and done whatever he wanted anyway. I can't vouch if that is true and it was only alleged at the time.

 

[Easy 10]

Pretty sure that most pilots of light aircraft use major roads to navigate by, and always have done. It's by doing the manoeuvre directly over that road that should have IMHO featured in any rudimentary form of risk assessment. Why not do it over the nearby water, where only the pilot would have been at risk? Sadly, always easy to be wise after the event. Like any air accident, valuable lessons will have been learned to make future displays all that much safer. Just so tragic that so many people had to lose their lives for that lesson to be learned.

Navigating is one thing, but pulling up out of a loop-the-loop whilst flying right along the course of a dual carriageway is quite another. That, to me, is just recklessly mad. You don't need hindsight for that.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Navigating is one thing, but pulling up out of a loop-the-loop whilst flying right along the course of a dual carriageway is quite another. That, to me, is just recklessly mad. You don't need hindsight for that.

I know. I just said all that - in the bit about risk assessment - in the post you quoted.

 

[mikeyjh]

I'm sure an early report last year mentioned that the pilot had handed in pre flight reports and plans at other air shows but had then just gone and done whatever he wanted anyway. I can't vouch if that is true and it was only alleged at the time.

He got too close to the crowd line at Southport, believe he was grounded for that. It does happen......

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I'm sure an early report last year mentioned that the pilot had handed in pre flight reports and plans at other air shows but had then just gone and done whatever he wanted anyway. I can't vouch if that is true and it was only alleged at the time.

I was going to ask this. I obviously have NO idea how an air show is put together but I was wondering if a pilot has to submit their "display and route" prior to doing it...or whether they are allowed free reign/artistic license?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

What I always found incredible was the fact that he performed that manoeuvre whilst flying directly along the A27. That strikes me as being INCREDIBLY reckless, to perform a loop whilst actually following the path of a major dual carriageway.

I'm no lawyer, but that factor alone could be a major factor if they bring about a manslaughter charge.

Pretty sure that most pilots of light aircraft use major roads to navigate by, and always have done. It's by doing the manoeuvre directly over that road that should have IMHO featured in any rudimentary form of risk assessment. Why not do it over the nearby water, where only the pilot would have been at risk? Sadly, always easy to be wise after the event. Like any air accident, valuable lessons will have been learned to make future displays all that much safer. Just so tragic that so many people had to lose their lives for that lesson to be learned.

I said this shortly after 22/8. There is a massive field (and the River Adur) to the north of the A27, which could have EASILY have been used.

The response from the organisers smacks of them trying to save their own skin and playing on the charitable element for sympathy. Terrible situation for all parties concerned, but obviously some way more than others...

 

[Greg Bobkin]

An incredibly sad day it was....I hope the relatives of those that died are suitably informed about this report and the ongoing process

They were given copies of the report last night, Lamie so yes – they are fully aware.

 

[clarkey]

I was going to ask this. I obviously have NO idea how an air show is put together but I was wondering if a pilot has to submit their "display and route" prior to doing it...or whether they are allowed free reign/artistic license?

This article from last year, which I think the poster you quote was referring to, suggests they were not aware. Clearly meaning no appropriate risk assessment could take place or appropriate safety measures taken.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35773975

 

[Bold Seagull]

You can only guess, but if he got a series of navigations wrong, whether speed, altitude, pitch, whatever, then in originally considering the loop, it may have had no intention of being over the A27, but through a series of errors, each compounding the next meant this is where he tragically ended up. Again, only he will know whether he planned to be that far out, or it was a tragic consequence of the errors.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

It's a very unfortunate turn of phrase, pilots make errors all the time just like drivers do, that's why there are fail safes and procedures to help prevent the plane from crashing. If you've ever watched 'Air Crash Investigation', you'd know that almost all crashes are as a result of a 'series of errors'. Hope that lessons are learned of course but sadly I suspect we've seen the last of the Shoreham Airshow.

I don't believe pilots make errors all the time, they are trained, re-trained and re-trained all the time. Incidents are always a result of a catalogue of events but not always errors. The CAA produces a magazine each month for licensed aircraft personnel (engineers/pilots etc) called Human Factors. It highlights human intervention into what is a highly technical industry. It can be a fascinating read.

Over the years most accidents have been attributed to human error. Even the one that landed in the Hudson river, where bird strikes screwed both engines they did attempt to put an element of blame on the captain. The fact no one else managed to land it in the sim proved his skill. There is however one major factor in this, the interests of the main aircraft manufacturers. If the public lose confidence in a type of aircraft this has huge influence on all the industry, much easier to blame a pilot who's normally deceased or a "procedure" that requires updating. Meanwhile quietly in the background, a mandatory modification program is instigated to remedy an issue with the remaining aircraft of that type.

In this instance though the lack of paperwork (assessment) regulation whatever does not detract from the pilot's actions, he was after all supposedly very experienced.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

It's a very unfortunate turn of phrase, pilots make errors all the time just like drivers do, that's why there are fail safes and procedures to help prevent the plane from crashing. If you've ever watched 'Air Crash Investigation', you'd know that almost all crashes are as a result of a 'series of errors'. Hope that lessons are learned of course but sadly I suspect we've seen the last of the Shoreham Airshow.

Seen a few of ACI and Air Transit where it runs out of fuel but lands is some event.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

How it's taken all this time to tell us what we already knew I do not know.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

How it's taken all this time to tell us what we already knew I do not know.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

If you take a peek at the 435 full report and the thoroughness you might get some idea ....

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/58b9247740f0b67ec80000fc/AAR_1-2017_G-BXFI.pdf

 

[drew]

I think you need to be careful on how you paraphrase comments from the report. The report indicates he wasn't assessed doing an escape manoeuvre in a hunter, not that he didn't know how to do one. How similar escape manoeuvres are in different vintage aircraft I don't know but maybe that will come out when civil cases are pursued!


I would point out that I have, as yet, only read the summary so apologies if that is in the body of the report.

 

[drew]

What I always found incredible was the fact that he performed that manoeuvre whilst flying directly along the A27. That strikes me as being INCREDIBLY reckless, to perform a loop whilst actually following the path of a major dual carriageway.

I'm no lawyer, but that factor alone could be a major factor if they bring about a manslaughter charge.

I'm not sure he was actually flying along the the line of the A27 at all. Some of the diagrams of the flight path suggest he did a fly by along the display line out over the A27 and then double back from over the fields/Adur. What does seem odd is that the manoeuvre (the loop) looks like it started just before crossing the A27 so that as he came out of the loop he would still be over the road!! Had he started the manoeuvre 30 metres later then the crash would probably have been after the plane had crossed the A27. Such small margins with absolutely dire consequences.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

"Mr Hill had not been trained in the escape manoeuvre"

Unbelievable.

Like training a train driver but not showing him where the brakes are.

Just got to page 164 ...

The pilot stated that if the aircraft achieved a height below 3,500 ft he would
perform an escape manoeuvre by reducing the rate of pitch, increasing the
airspeed, rolling the aircraft upright and climbing away. The pilot had not
practised the escape manoeuvre he described, but the execution of such a
manoeuvre would have been consistent with his background and experience.

Suggests he did know what to do, but for some reason chose not to ....