Shootings and explosion in Paris!

[Machiavelli]

I think that now the penny has dropped, or at least dropping, then obviously a more depressed stance is starting to emerge.

I'm not depressed, but I find the events in Paris, and much of the reaction disappointing. I wouldn't want to suggest any equivalence between them, although the latter might lead to something far worse. It often does.

 

[Hastings gull]

I'm not depressed, but I find the events in Paris, and much of the reaction disappointing. I wouldn't want to suggest any equivalence between them, although the latter might lead to something far worse. It often does.

So what would your solution be?

 

[Soulman]

I'm not depressed, but I find the events in Paris, and much of the reaction disappointing. I wouldn't want to suggest any equivalence between them, although the latter might lead to something far worse. It often does.

I'm depressed that even though there were worries, warnings and genuine concerns over mass migration and those posing as refugees, that these attacks come very soon after these unwise decisions. "Far worse", fairly bad now isn't it.

 

[Hastings gull]

Sometimes it's better to let others do the talking.
But if you really want me to say something constructive, to the best of my knowledge there are about 1.5billion Muslims in this world. I'd suggest that there's quite a wide variety of views and people within that number. Just as there are in the world's Christian community. And in the other religions. And also within the atheists, which is a far smaller number.
Feel free to reciprocate.

I am sure that description is probably true, but what is your point?

 

[StonehamPark]

Don't know whether this has been posted yet, but please give it a watch.

 

[Hastings gull]

Don't know whether this has been posted yet, but please give it a watch.

Thanks. The young lad seems very dubious as to whether the good intentions, flowers and candles will protect him from gunfire! I can't say that I blame him, though accept that what the dad is doing is very noble.

 

[Machiavelli]

So what would your solution be?

The entire situation is a mess, and it's a trite point to say I wouldn't start from here. Broadly, I think the global institutional framework needs strengthening, as does global law, which operated fairly well for sixty-odd years before about 2000. ISIS is a tough one. I'd suggest that key regional powers -- especially Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arabia -- need to be brought together to work out a solution. I'd also like any action by non-regional powers -- and debates in their country -- to think extremely carefully about how any actions are directed towards long-term consequences, and that they don't fan the flames. In terms of Europe, I'd be very sceptical of attempts by executives to extend states of emergency, and that any should be limited in time, and to be for very clearly defined activities.

And you?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Thanks. The young lad seems very dubious as to whether the good intentions, flowers and candles will protect him from gunfire! I can't say that I blame him, though accept that what the dad is doing is very noble.

Noble indeed but the kid might be more convinced and sleep better if Dad just said we have bigger guns and more of em!

 

[Machiavelli]

I am sure that description is probably true, but what is your point?

Generalising and scapegoating is not a good idea. You're perfectly well aware of what post I was responding to. Do you want to challenge similar posts, or do I get singled out for special treatment?
As indicated, feel free to expand on your viewpoint so it can be engaged with.

 

[Hastings gull]

The entire situation is a mess, and it's a trite point to say I wouldn't start from here. Broadly, I think the global institutional framework needs strengthening, as does global law, which operated fairly well for sixty-odd years before about 2000. ISIS is a tough one. I'd suggest that key regional powers -- especially Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arabia -- need to be brought together to work out a solution. I'd also like any action by non-regional powers -- and debates in their country -- to think extremely carefully about how any actions are directed towards long-term consequences, and that they don't fan the flames. In terms of Europe, I'd be very sceptical of attempts by executives to extend states of emergency, and that any should be limited in time, and to be for very clearly defined activities.

And you?

Thank you and as you ask, it seems only fair that I reciprocate. First, I am not sure what you mean about global law, so cannot comment on that. Yes, the other countries getting together might be of benefit, but OK, so they are brought together, and ISIS ignores them, then what? And if they don't find a solution,afterall that has not happened yet? Are Iran and the Saudis best mates? Yes, there needs to be careful thought, and whilst I can see you are not excluding support for the military option, you seem very sceptical. IF talking fails, or doesn't even take place, and we should also avoid intervention, then to my mind, there is little else. For the moment, severely bombing their oil fields to try and starve them of revenue, seems a sensible move, as well as any of their troop movements etc, and if this becomes (for them) catastrophic enough, it might induce them to come to the table, but accepted, there are no guarantees. I appreciate that that others will say it fans the flames, but surely they are already fanned, and if we shy away from military action, because they will retaliate, then they have effectively won. I think there is a case for bombing strategic objectives, but also an approach to say we are amenable to talk and will halt the campaign say for two weeks whilst they consider their options. Bombing alone will not work, nor nice fluffy, vague gestures such as we will defend our way of life with flowers. You are right -it is a mess.

 

[Machiavelli]

Thank you and as you ask, it seems only fair that I reciprocate. First, I am not sure what you mean about global law, so cannot comment on that. Yes, the other countries getting together might be of benefit, but OK, so they are brought together, and ISIS ignores them, then what? And if they don't find a solution,afterall that has not happened yet? Are Iran and the Saudis best mates? Yes, there needs to be careful thought, and whilst I can see you are not excluding support for the military option, you seem very sceptical. IF talking fails, or doesn't even take place, and we should also avoid intervention, then to my mind, there is little else. For the moment, severely bombing their oil fields to try and starve them of revenue, seems a sensible move, as well as any of their troop movements etc, and if this becomes (for them) catastrophic enough, it might induce them to come to the table, but accepted, there are no guarantees. I appreciate that that others will say it fans the flames, but surely they are already fanned, and if we shy away from military action, because they will retaliate, then they have effectively won. I think there is a case for bombing strategic objectives, but also an approach to say we are amenable to talk and will halt the campaign say for two weeks whilst they consider their options. Bombing alone will not work, nor nice fluffy, vague gestures such as we will defend our way of life with flowers. You are right -it is a mess.

Switch on Question Time. The level of debate is pretty impressive. And, for what it's worth, if bombing needs to take place, I think you're right to identify oil fields. For an historical approach to global law, it's worth reading Mark Mazower Governing the World

 

[Hastings gull]

Switch on Question Time. The level of debate is pretty impressive. And, for what it's worth, if bombing needs to take place, I think you're right to identify oil fields. For an historical approach to global law, it's worth reading Mark Mazower Governing the World

Thanks. I am typing this and listening to it!

 

[Captain Sensible]

I really think you are underestimating the security services.I imagine that GCHQ has a pretty good handle on all those that it needs to be watching, but, for obvious reasons it is not going to advertise the methods and strategies that they use.
If a returning Syrian jihadist is allowed to return to his normal life, maybe it is because the security services glean a lot more low level intelligence from them, than if they were not allowed back, and who knows how many are on the radar at any one time.
Thankfully, we haven't got it wrong too many times so far, and the spooks are notoriously tight lipped when it comes to their methods and on going tactics

I wasn't knocking the security services at all. I think they do a great job, more those in charge that bow to political pressure.
This situation with Islamic extremism is not going away, we will never be able to solve it. All we can do it strike a balance. For example, if your security Is high enough over the next country then they are gonna get hit before you. A big like burglary, if you have alarms and cameras and someone else across the street doesn't....
We (the Western European states), need to strike the right balance. Tough enough to put off terrorists, but tolerant enough to have the population live in relative harmony. A very difficult balance to strike.
IMO schengen needs to be abolished, extremists need tacking full on and engaging the local Islamic communities to get them actively ousting their bad eggs. Sadly the latter will prove the most difficult.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Just last night, Baker Street tube station was evacuated, because of an abandoned car. A controlled explosion took place.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/baker-street-tube-station-evacuated-6864643?ICID=FB_mirror_main

 

[carlzeiss]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/gunmen-hostages-mali-hotel-reports-151120084719883.html

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Apparently the female suicide bomber was a man, they must have found an extra piece.

And another one has been identified .

Prosecutors said that a second suicide bomber from the Stade de France attack passed through Greece on his way to France.
Prosecutors had previously said one of the other attackers had come on the same route, via the Greek island of Leros. The men may have been posing as Syrian refugees.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34885606

 

[Soulman]

Apparently the female suicide bomber was a man, they must have found an extra piece.

And another one has been identified .

Prosecutors said that a second suicide bomber from the Stade de France attack passed through Greece on his way to France.
Prosecutors had previously said one of the other attackers had come on the same route, via the Greek island of Leros. The men may have been posing as Syrian refugees.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34885606

Quelle surprise.

 

[sir albion]

Two now confirmed as coming through Greece as migrants....Christ most knew this would happen.

 

[Mutts Nuts]

Two now confirmed as coming through Greece as migrants....Christ most knew this would happen.

Angela Merkel has a lot to answer for

 

[cunning fergus]

Two now confirmed as coming through Greece as migrants....Christ most knew this would happen.

Indeed, and now national and EU politicians in Europe who have long disregarded their citizens interests and safety in preference for the interests of foreigners are rapidly changing tack regarding national border controls.

I note the Guardian is reporting this evening that the end of Schengen at today's EU meeting is nigh, which is a profound change to the ideals of the EU. Makes a mockery of the claims from some about protecting the European way of life.

The mask is slipping, the end of this vast vanity project is underway and it may well be one positive we can all take out from this tragic affair.

It's a sad reality of life these days that seismic change never seen seems to happen until people are dead.........politicians have a lot to answer for.