[Finance] Seriously, this government is failing us. Schools closing...

[Weststander]

It takes two to tango.

Don't forget the customers of the above asking for... "a discount for cash", or "do you have to put this through the books?", and paying window cleaners, cleaners, child care etc in cash with no tax or NI.

It's not just the businesses who have to pay their fair share (though it is most certainly that too)...it's also all of us.

Homeowners/consumers will often opt for the cheaper cash price. Impossible to monitor that side. HMRC need more staff to catch all the tax-bent cabbies, builders, landlords, takeaways, businesses of all sizes. This should not be dismissed as chicken feed, the gap is £10B’s a year still.

True. Everyone in a PAYE job already does, whether on £750k or £15k a year.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Homeowners/consumers will often opt for the cheaper cash price. Impossible to monitor that side. HMRC need more staff to catch all the tax-bent cabbies, builders, landlords, takeaways, businesses of all sizes. This should not be dismissed as chicken feed, the gap is £10B’s a year still.

True. Everyone in a PAYE job already does, whether on £750k or £15k a year.

I'm not dismissing the business evasion/avoidance as chicken feed; far from it.

But neither should you so readily brush under the carpet the fact that consumers will so easily accept a cheaper cash price. That is also tax evasion and the fact that it is nigh on impossible to police does not, imo, diminish the ethical (and legal) duty to pay your taxes. There is an awful lot of hypocrisy about this issue - it's morally indefensible to adopt a stance of "Starbucks should pay their tax, but it's ok if I don't pay VAT for a small building job". Simply, no, it f***ing is not. We've all done it though*. Every one one of us - thus we're all complicit in the under-funding of our public services.

*For the avoidance of doubt: I've always paid the VAT I'm supposed to pay. I've never paid cash for a cheaper price. Oh no, m'lud, I certainly have not

 

[portlock seagull]

It takes two to tango.

Don't forget the customers of the above asking for... "a discount for cash", or "do you have to put this through the books?", and paying window cleaners, cleaners, child care etc in cash with no tax or NI.

It's not just the businesses who have to pay their fair share (though it is most certainly that too)...it's also all of us.

Yep, lots of double standards it’s true. Be good if the government showed leadership for the top, but all the while big corporates aren’t paying their true level of tax it’s no wonder the little guys evade too. Small businesses are crippled by bureaucracy and tax by comparison.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Public spending is greater than in 2009/10. £817B compared to £669B. No one disputes those figures.

I thought [MENTION=17022]Surrey Phil[/MENTION] was pointing out that our huge annual population increase should be brought into the discussion, as one causal factor.

But I hear what your saying, I respect your on the ground knowledge of the courts, police etc. Our country needs to spend far more on the NHS, HMC&TS, Police, Schools, the disabled, the vulnerable.

I can only see two sources to pay for it:
1. Increase income tax for everyone but the poor.
2. Scrap HS2. The cost is madness, to shave some time off of certain rail journeys.

This government spent £500M on privatising the Probation service. It isn't the amount of money, but the way it is spent.

[tweet]1101381479639248896[/tweet]

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I'm not dismissing the business evasion/avoidance as chicken feed; far from it.

But neither should you so readily brush under the carpet the fact that consumers will so easily accept a cheaper cash price. That is also tax evasion and the fact that it is nigh on impossible to police does not, imo, diminish the ethical (and legal) duty to pay your taxes. There is an awful lot of hypocrisy about this issue - it's morally indefensible to adopt a stance of "Starbucks should pay their tax, but it's ok if I don't pay VAT for a small building job". Simply, no, it f***ing is not. We've all done it though*. Every one one of us - thus we're all complicit in the under-funding of our public services.

*For the avoidance of doubt: I've always paid the VAT I'm supposed to pay. I've never paid cash for a cheaper price. Oh no, m'lud, I certainly have not

You could also argue that some tax isn't exactly fair. If I pay say £200 to have my car serviced then the government add £40 VAT on top of that - really ? Why ? There's no 'value added' - I need to get my car serviced to keep it running - oh and to be able to pay VED and fuel tax. And as I mention it VED - WTF ? Based on how polluting your car is but takes no account of how many miles you do. Just add it to fuel so that those that drive the most pay the most. The tax system in this country is screwed ...... and so I have some empathy with those that 'avoid' tax by paying cash ...... which of course I would NEVER do ..... although I always tip in cash so maybe I do help tax avoidance.

 

[Gwylan]

It's all very well so don't pay in cash but I haven't had a chequebook for about five years. How many window cleaners, cleaners, taxi drivers have card machines? Not many of them

 

[Weststander]

Yep, lots of double standards it’s true. Be good if the government showed leadership for the top, but all the while big corporates aren’t paying their true level of tax it’s no wonder the little guys evade too. Small businesses are crippled by bureaucracy and tax by comparison.

Whataboutism.

Let’s excuse the £10b’s of tax fraud by sole traders, small and medium sized businesses, because some multinationals are also disgraceful.

The figures are huge across the board, let’s catch them all.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's all very well so don't pay in cash but I haven't had a chequebook for about five years. How many window cleaners, cleaners, taxi drivers have card machines? Not many of them

I pay my window cleaner by bank transfer. £13 a month. He leaves a card when he's done the windows, and I transfer the money that day.

 

[Goldstone1976]

You could also argue that some tax isn't exactly fair. If I pay say £200 to have my car serviced then the government add £40 VAT on top of that - really ? Why ? There's no 'value added' - I need to get my car serviced to keep it running - oh and to be able to pay VED and fuel tax. And as I mention it VED - WTF ? Based on how polluting your car is but takes no account of how many miles you do. Just add it to fuel so that those that drive the most pay the most. The tax system in this country is screwed ...... and so I have some empathy with those that 'avoid' tax by paying cash ...... which of course I would NEVER do ..... although I always tip in cash so maybe I do help tax avoidance.

For sure, the tax system here is screwy - I’ve always thought that Inheritance Tax is fundamentally unfair; you’re paying tax on assets that have arisen on already taxed sources, ffs.

However, I don’t think that “I don’t think that law is fair, so I don’t follow it” is viable for society as a whole. If it can apply to the little people in their tax affairs, then why not to big corporates in theirs? And why limit it to tax? Why not allow people to break any law they like? That’s a path to anarchy.

Nope, let s/he who has not sinned throw the first stone. It’ll be a very short queue.

 

[Goldstone1976]

It's all very well so don't pay in cash but I haven't had a chequebook for about five years. How many window cleaners, cleaners, taxi drivers have card machines? Not many of them

Taxi drivers are perhaps the only one of those three where I'd agree there's a problem. I pay the window cleaners and cleaners through a BACS transfer.

Besides, I'm not saying "don't pay cash"; I'm saying instead "don't pretend that you are not involved in tax avoidance/evasion, because you are".

 

[Thunder Bolt]

No investigation into the Garden Bridge fiasco. Who is covering all this up?

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[Weststander]

I pay my window cleaner by bank transfer. £13 a month. He leaves a card when he's done the windows, and I transfer the money that day.

Same here, he wanted that. Then up to him how he’s deals with it.

 

[Weststander]

For sure, the tax system here is screwy - I’ve always thought that Inheritance Tax is fundamentally unfair; you’re paying tax on assets that have arisen on already taxed sources, ffs.

However, I don’t think that “I don’t think that law is fair, so I don’t follow it” is viable for society as a whole. If it can apply to the little people in their tax affairs, then why not to big corporates in theirs? And why limit it to tax? Why not allow people to break any law they like? That’s a path to anarchy.

Nope, let s/he who has not sinned throw the first stone. It’ll be a very short queue.

Great post.

Tax fraud in the UK by wealthy individuals, sole traders, small to large businesses, was rife before Starbucks and Amazon came along or immoral tax schemes used by celebs.

The vast majority of businesses pay their full share of tax.

Whereas a counter culture from toffs to tradesmen criminally lie. Depriving the public purse of £B’s needed for public spending.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Back to the OP, as a parent of two I would be livid if our local school told us to collect our kids at 12.45pm on a Friday or face a £3.50 charge.

Pretty high up on a government's list of "Essentials" is to ensure the population receive a proper education from 5-16. However, school hours are cut whilst the government spunks money on the DUP, garden bridges, Seaborne Freight, £33m compensation today for Eurotunnel - all done with complete impunity.

 

[Weststander]

Back to the OP, as a parent of two I would be livid if our local school told us to collect our kids at 12.45pm on a Friday or face a £3.50 charge.

Pretty high up on a government's list of "Essentials" is to ensure the population receive a proper education from 5-16. However, school hours are cut whilst the government spunks money on the DUP, garden bridges, Seaborne Freight, £33m compensation today for Eurotunnel - all done with complete impunity.

[MENTION=258]Pavilionaire[/MENTION] I’m currently in casualty at the Royal Sussex and have been since 4 this morning. The queues are huge, the beds lacking, god it’s hot in here. Lots of pour souls waiting.

The NHS needs serious investment. I do realise that spending has risen under all governments, but it’s insufficient for our rapidly rising and ageing population.

I try to avoid binary (goodies v baddies) political parties. The House of Commons needs to unite to solve this. Or at least the decent MP’s in the middle, who should put aside point scoring on this.

 

[Crispy Ambulance]

[MENTION=258]Pavilionaire[/MENTION] I’m currently in casualty at the Royal Sussex and have been since 4 this morning. The queues are huge, the beds lacking, god it’s hot in here. Lots of pour souls waiting.

The NHS needs serious investment. I do realise that spending has risen under all governments, but it’s insufficient for our rapidly rising and ageing population.

I try to avoid binary (goodies v baddies) political parties. The House of Commons needs to unite to solve this. Or at least the decent MP’s in the middle, who should put aside point scoring on this.

Hope you're ok.

 

[Pavilionaire]

[MENTION=258]Pavilionaire[/MENTION] I’m currently in casualty at the Royal Sussex and have been since 4 this morning. The queues are huge, the beds lacking, god it’s hot in here. Lots of pour souls waiting.

The NHS needs serious investment. I do realise that spending has risen under all governments, but it’s insufficient for our rapidly rising and ageing population.

I try to avoid binary (goodies v baddies) political parties. The House of Commons needs to unite to solve this. Or at least the decent MP’s in the middle, who should put aside point scoring on this.

I hope you get seen to very soon and make a swift recovery, and I agree with you about funding key services being beyond party politics.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

[MENTION=258]Pavilionaire[/MENTION] I’m currently in casualty at the Royal Sussex and have been since 4 this morning. The queues are huge, the beds lacking, god it’s hot in here. Lots of pour souls waiting.

The NHS needs serious investment. I do realise that spending has risen under all governments, but it’s insufficient for our rapidly rising and ageing population.

I try to avoid binary (goodies v baddies) political parties. The House of Commons needs to unite to solve this. Or at least the decent MP’s in the middle, who should put aside point scoring on this.

I remember my grandma being stuck on a trolley for six hours outside A&E in the 90s. They where talking about the same things then as they are now.

Until we change the way we pay for our NHS nothing will change in my opinion. The same problem will always appear. My mum has had brilliant care over the last few years, when your in the system it's fine, it's getting in to it that's the hard part.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

[MENTION=258]Pavilionaire[/MENTION] I’m currently in casualty at the Royal Sussex and have been since 4 this morning. The queues are huge, the beds lacking, god it’s hot in here. Lots of pour souls waiting.

The NHS needs serious investment. I do realise that spending has risen under all governments, but it’s insufficient for our rapidly rising and ageing population.

I try to avoid binary (goodies v baddies) political parties. The House of Commons needs to unite to solve this. Or at least the decent MP’s in the middle, who should put aside point scoring on this.

The problem with A&E is that too many people use it as a GP service. I ended up there June last year with a life threaterning issue - I was seen within ten minutes and transfered to ICU. It works for those that really should be there - not so much for those that shouldn't.

 

[Weststander]

I remember my grandma being stuck on a trolley for six hours outside A&E in the 90s. They where talking about the same things then as they are now.

Until we change the way we pay for our NHS nothing will change in my opinion. The same problem will always appear. My mum has had brilliant care over the last few years, when your in the system it's fine, it's getting in to it that's the hard part.

Good point. I remember being here for endless hours as a 17 year old.

I’m hoping for a Coalition next time, with a huge number of MP’s willing to work together.

Anyone in the public who whinges about NHS spending, clearly hasn’t seriously needed it. Sometimes the health confidence that comes from being in your 20’s and 30’s when you think you’ll be healthy forever.