[Football] Sergio Ageuro heart problem.

[WATFORD zero]

Why are so many sports people having heart problems/extreme illnesses of recent? I knew someone (vaguely) who actually played at Withdean against us for Leyton Orient called Sam Oji who passed away a few months ago at just the age of 35. There's been tons of similar cases. Look what happened to Seb Eubank earlier too. So strange how it's been happening a lot of recent to such healthy people.

Has there ever been a time before when we've seen so many sports people in such bad situations health wise before? Maybe all this lockdown stress is causing too much danger for people?

I suspect that it isn't happening more but, as with so much in the 21st century, every single example now makes International news (and there are far more 'famous' people to report on than 20 years ago, be they athletes, musicians, entertainers, or the many new reasons for being 'famous').

Sad though it is, an ex-boxer who had retired 25 years earlier having a son dying suddenly wouldn't have made the news 20 years ago.

And the miracle survivals that are happening regularly these days due to the brilliance of modern medicine were unheard of when I was a kid

 

[beorhthelm]

I don't really understand why it wasn't picked up earlier. If he had had a full ECG either at City or when he joined Barca,I'm surprised they don't specifically look for this type of heart defect.
It is the same type of thing as Christian Ericson, Fabrice Muamba and Vivien Foe have had.

The ex England cricketer James Taylor had exactly this.

i've read a comment somewhere it was known issue he's had for years. not sure how true and cant find now (google fails after something becomes widespread news)

 

[Poojah]

Why are so many sports people having heart problems/extreme illnesses of recent? I knew someone (vaguely) who actually played at Withdean against us for Leyton Orient called Sam Oji who passed away a few months ago at just the age of 35. There's been tons of similar cases. Look what happened to Seb Eubank earlier too. So strange how it's been happening a lot of recent to such healthy people.

Has there ever been a time before when we've seen so many sports people in such bad situations health wise before? Maybe all this lockdown stress is causing too much danger for people?

I don’t know, but I’m still not sure we’re quite ‘there’ yet in terms of preemptive screening. Given the amount of medical scrutiny elite athletes are subject to, it surprises me how many players slip the net and suffer major cardiac events, often in the heat of battle.

I’ve suffered chest pain and abnormal palpitations / arrhythmias since childhood, and first had an echocardiogram aged 8 or 9 following a fun run that turned out to be not very fun at all and saw me end up blue lighted to hospital.

I had another series of assessments in my early twenties when an ECG indicated potential left ventricular hypertrophy, an enlargement of the left ventricle, which can in extreme cases lead to sudden cardiac death. This was eventually ruled out (to my relief), before further tests a few years later detected I have a bicuspid aortic valve (where the valve on the aorta has only two leaflets or ‘flaps’ instead of three, allowing blood to regurgitate or leak back through the valve) plus third-degree AV block, which is an electrical disturbance leading to heart palpitations and arrhythmias (though not typically life threatening ones).

It took maybe seven or eight echos over the years to identify that - if I hadn’t been persistent I may still not have known. BAV is less likely to kill you on the spot than something like hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, but can lead to dissection of the aorta, an excruciating and potentially fatal medical emergency that killed actor John Ritter. Work to be done there in my opinion, based on personal experience at least.

 

[lawros left foot]

If you don't mind my asking - do you also have a sunken chest? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pectus_excavatum)

Just curious because I do and others I've spoken to have had both Brugada and the sunken chest.

No, not at all.

My sister also has the mutant gene as does my Morher, Daughter, Niece, and an Auntie.

I had 2 Uncles who dropped dead for no apparent reason,( before Brugada was ‘discovered’) and recently 2 cousins who have died, one in Thailand, and one in Australia from suspected Brugada, none have or had sunken chests.

 

[lawros left foot]

Some had Brugada and others had hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, didn't they? There are also other heritable long QT syndromes too. The hard one to detect is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy in athletes because their hearts enlarge as a response to their job.

Yeah, sorry,? I wasn’t very clear.

I meant hidden heart conditions, more than specifically Brugada Syndrome.

 

[Brighton & Love]

I suspect that it isn't happening more but, as with so much in the 21st century, every single example now makes International news (and there are far more 'famous' people to report on than 20 years ago, be they athletes, musicians, entertainers, or the many new reasons for being 'famous').

Sad though it is, an ex-boxer who had retired 25 years earlier having a son dying suddenly wouldn't have made the news 20 years ago.

Fair enough. Could possibly be the case and I very much hope so. But there's definitely been an alarming rise in reports either way. Just look at the dates of all these reports I've linked below:

:https://www.npr.org/2021/10/27/1049...dgame-heart-attack-new-jersey?t=1635845964055

https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2021/08/dimitri-mckee/

https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2021/08/quandarius-wilburn/

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/georgia-15-year-collapses-dies-football-practice-79098842

https://www.cbs58.com/news/las-vegas-high-school-student-13-dies-during-football-practice

https://www.wowt.com/2021/08/11/omaha-south-football-player-dies-heatstroke-family-says/

https://www.pennlive.com/highschool...-has-passed-away-unexpectedly-coach-says.html

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2...ll-collapse-scrimmage-cardiovascular-disease/

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/spo...77/athlete-gilbert-kwemoi-dies-in-mount-elgon

https://www.dailyadvent.com/news/f9...ckle-Nikolas-Lawrynas-died-unexpectedly-at-17

https://californianewstimes.com/stu...was-looking-forward-to-seasons-return/228261/

https://www.live5news.com/2021/03/19/charleston-southern-freshman-football-player-passes-away/

https://nypost.com/2021/03/03/high-school-football-player-dies-after-first-day-of-practice/

Thoughts go out to all the families and friends related to this.

 

[BBassic]

No, not at all.

My sister also has the mutant gene as does my Morher, Daughter, Niece, and an Auntie.

I had 2 Uncles who dropped dead for no apparent reason,( before Brugada was ‘discovered’) and recently 2 cousins who have died, one in Thailand, and one in Australia from suspected Brugada, none have or had sunken chests.

Ah ok, thanks. I'm not aware of any documented link to be fair.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Why are so many sports people having heart problems/extreme illnesses of recent? I knew someone (vaguely) who actually played at Withdean against us for Leyton Orient called Sam Oji who passed away a few months ago at just the age of 35. There's been tons of similar cases. Look what happened to Seb Eubank earlier too. So strange how it's been happening a lot of recent to such healthy people.

Has there ever been a time before when we've seen so many sports people in such bad situations health wise before? Maybe all this lockdown stress is causing too much danger for people?

It isn't 'so many'. It is very rare. The preponderance of the gene mutations responsible for Brugada, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and other such syndromes in the population is not going to change much over time.

Ironically, the fact that footballers are now elite athletes rather than slightly paunchy blokes who smoke and drink, means that the risk of exercise/training causing exacerbation of hypertrophy is much greater now, so if you are at risk of (one of the many) genetically determined tendencies to hypertrophy then the phenopype is more likely to manifest today than 20 or 30 or more years ago.

However if anyone ever gets anything like this on a football pitch it is all over the news for days. It really isn't all that common.

 

[Audax]

That is complete and utter bollocks.

All the conditions described are heritable - they are the products of tiny mutations that alter the function of cardiac ion channels and currents such as IKr and IKs.

Please stop spreading lies about the Covid vaccine!

To be fair to Swansman, he was speculating on something that might have been a factor, and that speculation does come from a reasonable place. So while yes, you are right that such speculation can give rise to dodgy misinformation emerging, there have been reported heart-related issues arising from the vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna specifically iirc). From memory (can't be bothered going to dig out the articles where it was reported) it is a very, very small increased risk of heart issues in particular among young males. So there is/was some validity in raising the question. Rather remote that it would be related at all, though, in that I agree. Just don't think such an aggressive response was warranted.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That is complete and utter bollocks.

All the conditions described are heritable - they are the products of tiny mutations that alter the function of cardiac ion channels and currents such as IKr and IKs.

Please stop spreading lies about the Covid vaccine!

I should add something to this. There are (a tiny number of) papers in the literature suggesting that if you get Covid and this gives you a fever it could unmask an arrhythmia in patients with Brugada. These are case reports. There is no proof of cause and effect and these are part of the tsunami of speculative items in the fringes of the science and medicine literature on Covid. I am a science journal editor and I am inundated with aticle submissions pontificating about Covid and it is all hot air and wind. These papers don't pass scientific peer review and end up published in 'predatory' journals where authors pay to have their 'work' published.

Here is one:

COVID-19 Infection Unmasking Brugada Syndrome - CORE

This is a crap journal and there is no evidence that Covid or even the fever caused the Brugada.

Covid does not cause Brugada. Nor does vaccination. If you are worried about unknown effects of vaccines, and like a good case report, look up Andrew Wakefield. Here's one link.:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0256395

 

[Audax]

I should add something to this. There are (a tiny number of) papers in the literature suggesting that if you get Covid and this gives you a fever it could unmask an arrhythmia in patients with Brugada. These are case reports. There is no proof of cause and effect and these are part of the tsunami of speculative items in the fringes of the science and medicine literature on Covid. I am a science journal editor and I am inundated with aticle submissions pontificating about Covid and it is all hot air and wind. These papers don't pass scientific peer review and end up published in 'predatory' journals where authors pay to have their 'work' published.

Here is one:

COVID-19 Infection Unmasking Brugada Syndrome - CORE

This is a crap journal and there is no evidence that Covid or even the fever caused the Brugada.

Covid does not cause Brugada. Nor does vaccination. If you are worried about unknown effects of vaccines, and like a good case report, look up Andrew Wakefield. Here's one link.:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0256395

Good (and useful) post. FWIW, my post above wasn't about Brugada. I can't recall exactly what condition it was that they've picked up with Pfizer. it also wasn't from borderline scientific papers - it was official analysis out of US investigations into reported adverse events. IIRC direct causal link unknown, but there was enough data points to suggest that the vaccine was what was causing the elevated risk rate.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

To be fair to Swansman, he was speculating on something that might have been a factor, and that speculation does come from a reasonable place. So while yes, you are right that such speculation can give rise to dodgy misinformation emerging, there have been reported heart-related issues arising from the vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna specifically iirc). From memory (can't be bothered going to dig out the articles where it was reported) it is a very, very small increased risk of heart issues in particular among young males. So there is/was some validity in raising the question. Rather remote that it would be related at all, though, in that I agree. Just don't think such an aggressive response was warranted.

Yes, fair enough. Apologies [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION]. Perhaps you weren't suggesting covid causes Brugada.

The Andrew Wakefield case still makes me angry.

 

[Audax]

Yes, fair enough. Apologies [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION]. Perhaps you weren't suggesting covid causes Brugada.

The Andrew Wakefield case still makes me angry.

Quick question - is it confirmed anywhere that Aguero's problem actually *is* Brugada Syndrome, or is it possibly a case of 2+2=5 because he was treated by Brugada?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Quick question - is it confirmed anywhere that Aguero's problem actually *is* Brugada Syndrome, or is it possibly a case of 2+2=5 because he was treated by Brugada?

Good point.

BBC says he collapsed with chest pains. I would be astonished if this is Brugada. Chest pains could have nothing to do with the heart itself. I am sure someone with personal experience can confirm (my expectation) that when you go int VT/VF/TDP with Brugada you suddenly faint.

Chest pains are caused in the heart primarily by angina (coronary artery disease, which is very unlikely in a fit young athlete) or pericarditis, which can be viral (I have had it, and as many of you know I'm both young and fit), or acute ischaemia triggered by exercise in someone with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. The latter seems much more likely than Bugada. Cardiac arrhythmias are disturbing but are not a direct cause of chest pains.

So, yes, we could all be whistling in the wind. The Brugada brothers are Big in Spain so would be go-to for heart conditions, but I would have thought only for arrhythmias, which is slightly odd.

 

[lawros left foot]

I can confirm that in over 60 Brugada episodes, I have never felt a seconds pain.

I did read a Spanish website sports news report that said Aguerro had felt ‘discomfort’ ( palpitations maybe?)in his chest on Saturday.
So, no idea really.

 

[Audax]

Good point.

BBC says he collapsed with chest pains. I would be astonished if this is Brugada. Chest pains could have nothing to do with the heart itself. I am sure someone with personal experience can confirm (my expectation) that when you go int VT/VF/TDP with Brugada you suddenly faint.

Chest pains are caused in the heart primarily by angina (coronary artery disease, which is very unlikely in a fit young athlete) or pericarditis, which can be viral (I have had it, and as many of you know I'm both young and fit), or acute ischaemia triggered by exercise in someone with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. The latter seems much more likely than Bugada. Cardiac arrhythmias are disturbing but are not a direct cause of chest pains.

So, yes, we could all be whistling in the wind. The Brugada brothers are Big in Spain so would be go-to for heart conditions, but I would have thought only for arrhythmias, which is slightly odd.

Pericarditis - you've just reminded me of the condition that Pfizer is known/suspected of increasing risk for in younger males. That and myocarditis. Which has allowed me to find an NHS article, although it doesn't appear to go into detail on the actual risk increase - just confirms that there is an apparent link.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Pericarditis - you've just reminded me of the condition that Pfizer is known/suspected of increasing risk for in younger males. That and myocarditis. Which has allowed me to find an NHS article, although it doesn't appear to go into detail on the actual risk increase - just confirms that there is an apparent link.

Thanks for that. It says in the US there have been roughly 1000 cases of myocarditis and pericarditis (combined) in 300 million vaccinations, which is 1 case in 300,000. Even though this is predominantly in younger people, this is significantly less than the risk of death from Covid. And the 'side effect' isn't lethal. When I got pericarditis (years ago) the doc said the pain would go away of its own accord in a day or so, which it did. And there is no comparison with the prevalence in the general population, so it isn't know whether it is cause and effect or coincidence. I found it odd that they combined myocarditos and pericarditis data, given that myocarditis can be dangerous (leading to heart failure). I can only assume this was a 'clinical' diagnosis, and it doesn't lead to heart failure......overall, my judgement would be questionable smoke, and no fire.

 

[Audax]

Thanks for that. It says in the US there have been roughly 1000 cases of myocarditis and pericarditis (combined) in 300 million vaccinations, which is 1 case in 300,000. Even though this is predominantly in younger people, this is significantly less than the risk of death from Covid. And the 'side effect' isn't lethal. When I got pericarditis (years ago) the doc said the pain would go away of its own accord in a day or so, which it did. And there is no comparison with the prevalence in the general population, so it isn't know whether it is cause and effect or coincidence. I found it odd that they combined myocarditos and pericarditis data, given that myocarditis can be dangerous (leading to heart failure). I can only assume this was a 'clinical' diagnosis, and it doesn't lead to heart failure......overall, my judgement would be questionable smoke, and no fire.

Oh yeah, absolutely. The original article I saw said pretty much that: yes, there's an increased risk of these conditions post-vaccination. But the risk from catching Covid is so much higher that the advice remained on getting the vaccinations. At the time, it was interesting comparing it against the blood clot stuff with the AZ vaccine - which is broadly in the same ballpark. Increased risk, yes, but the risk from Covid being so much higher. And yet the AZ blood clots got an awful lot of press, while the Pfizer/Moderna heart stuff has flown well under the radar.

One got way too much press, the other possibly not enough but closer to the mark.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Oh yeah, absolutely. The original article I saw said pretty much that: yes, there's an increased risk of these conditions post-vaccination. But the risk from catching Covid is so much higher that the advice remained on getting the vaccinations. At the time, it was interesting comparing it against the blood clot stuff with the AZ vaccine - which is broadly in the same ballpark. Increased risk, yes, but the risk from Covid being so much higher. And yet the AZ blood clots got an awful lot of press, while the Pfizer/Moderna heart stuff has flown well under the radar.

One got way too much press, the other possibly not enough but closer to the mark.

Lol! This may be because 'the public' understands blood clots but 'myocarwhatsis?' in the minds of the journalists and editors deciding whether or not to run a story.

Or maybe the mainstream media have been warned off whipping up fake news scare stories....

 

[Audax]

Lol! This may be because 'the public' understands blood clots but 'myocarwhatsis?' in the minds of the journalists and editors deciding whether or not to run a story.

Or maybe the mainstream media have been warned off whipping up fake news scare stories....

Possibly the press learned more as well, as a result of the blood clots stuff being blown so out of proportion. I recall seeing an article that looked at both the AZ and mRNA vaccine "risks" and noted that in both cases:

- Both vaccines cause elevated risks for <condition(s)>
- Covid causes elevated risks for the same <condition(s)>
- The increased risk from Covid is far higher than the increased risk from the vaccines

My first thought at the time was ... "well, duh". If Covid itself can cause those conditions, then it is reasonable to expect that the vaccines for covid might also present an increased risk of those conditions.