[Finance] Self employed to receive 80% of income from the Gov’t too

[Icy Gull]

Does this mean getting 80% of salary if my company struggles is unlikely ?

Hence my question to [MENTION=30752]NooBHA[/MENTION] as he appears to have access to information that I can’t find online

Perhaps selfishly I am most concerned about the 80% of wages to companies having big caveats rather than the company grants

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

The way I see it is this.
They will take your submitted earnings from the past 3 tax years and give you 80% of it.
That's good and it is what Norway has already done.
Now, if your accountant has diverted some of those earnings into further expenses etc, which is totally legal, above board and what you pay him/her to do, who would have said no to that up until recently.
So you have paid little or no tax for however long.
If you are very naughty and receive cash you just may not have declared all of that either.
So 80% of what is left is generous, considering the loopholes.
The only question for me is what about people who cannot show 3 years of earnings.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The way I see it is this.
They will take your submitted earnings from the past 3 tax years and give you 80% of it.
That's good and it is what Norway has already done.
Now, if your accountant has diverted some of those earnings into further expenses etc, which is totally legal, above board and what you pay him/her to do, who would have said no to that up until recently.
So you have paid little or no tax for however long.
If you are very naughty and receive cash you just may not have declared all of that either.
So 80% of what is left is generous, considering the loopholes.
The only question for me is what about people who cannot show 3 years of earnings.

And, as I understand it, the pressing issue of how you prove you've stopped working and are entitled to the 80%. As I'm sure there are many self-employed who are continuing to work, both part-time and full time. Not a criticism, just an observation.

 

[NooBHA]

What are these clauses and do they apply to the self employed or companies, or both?

I think I might be blocked from seeing and my ''Notifications'' on NSC

 

[Icy Gull]

And, as I understand it, the pressing issue of how you prove you've stopped working and are entitled to the 80%. As I'm sure there are many self-employed who are continuing to work, both part-time and full time. Not a criticism, just an observation.

This is an issue I am having. I don’t want to take the piss so it looks like my staff will be laid off and I’ll be doing the close to nothing work we do have at present

 

[WATFORD zero]

This is an issue I am having. I don’t want to take the piss so it looks like my staff will be laid off and I’ll be doing the close to nothing work we do have at present

I think this is why the scheme hasn't yet been announced. You could use this year's figures to retrospectively claim back any over payments, but that would just encourage people to 'lessen' their declared earnings this year.

I'm not sure what the answer is, and I'm self-employed (part-time) so have a reasonable understanding of the issues, but I am lucky as my situation is clear cut and I stopped all teaching over a week ago. A lot of people will need to do anything from minimal work through to full-time simply to keep their businesses alive through this. It's nowhere near as simple as the PAYE situation.

 

[NooBHA]

Hence my question to [MENTION=30752]NooBHA[/MENTION] as he appears to have access to information that I can’t find online

Perhaps selfishly I am most concerned about the 80% of wages to companies having big caveats rather than the company grants

Yes they have the biggest and most ''far reaching'' caveats - Two of them in particular. The Bill is going to parliament today so maybe they will get removed in the Commons or the Lords but I doubt it because there is such a rush to get something through

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

And, as I understand it, the pressing issue of how you prove you've stopped working and are entitled to the 80%. As I'm sure there are many self-employed who are continuing to work, both part-time and full time. Not a criticism, just an observation.

You are right to bring it up, I covered the basics, there are more questions to iron out.
I suppose one answer is the lockdown and no non essential workers.
Be seen out and you get caught and fined.
Due to the empty(ish) roads this is not too tricky to police, certainly in Plymouth the rozzers are pulling vehicles over on the main roads in and out.
Yesterday someone got fined for not essential and using his mobile whilst driving the pillock.
He was picking up material for home improvement.

 

[LlcoolJ]

You are right to bring it up, I covered the basics, there are more questions to iron out.
I suppose one answer is the lockdown and no non essential workers.
Be seen out and you get caught and fined.
Due to the empty(ish) roads this is not too tricky to police, certainly in Plymouth the rozzers are pulling vehicles over on the main roads in and out.
Yesterday someone got fined for not essential and using his mobile whilst driving the pillock.
He was picking up material for home improvement.

That's interesting as I've not seen a copper on the road in about a week. And I live round the corner from a police station. I guess they are concentrating on major roads and I've been nowhere apart from very local shops etc. But it still seems odd.

On the other point, there is no way that anyone could tell whether I'm working or not as I'm sat in my office at home and I may be doing a 12 hour shift or (more likely) tossing it off on here. I'm sure there are many thousands in a similar situation.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

That's interesting as I've not seen a copper on the road in about a week. And I live round the corner from a police station. I guess they are concentrating on major roads and I've been nowhere apart from very local shops etc. But it still seems odd.

On the other point, there is no way that anyone could tell whether I'm working or not as I'm sat in my office at home and I may be doing a 12 hour shift or (more likely) tossing it off on here. I'm sure there are many thousands in a similar situation.

There was a police car parked up at my nearby petrol station last night. I stopped on the way back from work to inflate a low tyre. I reckon if I'd gone in to pay for fuel they would have questioned me. Or they might just have been buying donuts.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think we should have confidence on that very last point. The simpler employees announcement was only made last Friday. The self employed, who did the honest thing and declared their true profits in their profits in their tax returns, will get 80% of profits paid monthly up to the cap. Not sure if through HMRC or the benefits system.

The self employed shop keepers, builders, takeaways and tax drivers, who defrauded the nation, by suppressing declared income to give negligible taxable profits over recent years, are up sh*t creek. You reap what you sow.

What about the self employed one-man-band's who started limited companies that effectively employed themselves as 1 member of staff on paye, but due to cash flow of the business paid themselves a minimal salary, then paid corporate tax on profit dividends at the end of the year? A perfectly reasonable way for a 1 person business to be run, but 80% of their salary is likely to be not very much?

 

[NooBHA]

What about the self employed one-man-band's who started limited companies that effectively employed themselves as 1 member of staff on paye, but due to cash flow of the business paid themselves a minimal salary, then paid corporate tax on profit dividends at the end of the year? A perfectly reasonable way for a 1 person business to be run, but 80% of their salary is likely to be not very much?

One of the ''Clauses'' in the proposed legislation stops them from qualifying

 

[LlcoolJ]

What about the self employed one-man-band's who started limited companies that effectively employed themselves as 1 member of staff on paye, but due to cash flow of the business paid themselves a minimal salary, then paid corporate tax on profit dividends at the end of the year? A perfectly reasonable way for a 1 person business to be run, but 80% of their salary is likely to be not very much?

Exactly. Many different and varying cases. Which is why I would go down the route I mentioned earlier of basing any compensation on the total net income on the previous year's (or three year's) tax return/s. Whether that be PAYE / self employment / dividends / rental income, whatever. It's been declared and the tax has been assessed so what difference is there between that and someone who pays their tax monthly?

A lot of people have multiple sources of income. "Self employment" is just a blanket term. E.g. I have a client who works as a supply teacher through various agencies on PAYE but is also a climbing guide (self employed).

Another is self employed but also receives a dividend from her father's company which she does some work for.

Etc etc etc.......

 

[LlcoolJ]

There was a police car parked up at my nearby petrol station last night. I stopped on the way back from work to inflate a low tyre. I reckon if I'd gone in to pay for fuel they would have questioned me. Or they might just have been buying donuts.

I guess the latter.

 

[nicko31]

This whole thing of paying 80% wages of PAYE employees or self employed is going to be so hard to police properly.

Going to be so open to fraud and abuse. It can't go on for long, will bankrupt the government.

 

[Silverhatch]

This whole thing of paying 80% wages of PAYE employees or self employed is going to be so hard to police properly.

Going to be so open to fraud and abuse.

But if you're caught...

 

[NooBHA]

This whole thing of paying 80% wages of PAYE employees or self employed is going to be so hard to police properly.

Going to be so open to fraud and abuse. It can't go on for long, will bankrupt the government.

No it isn't - Initial reading of the Bill suggests that they are going to use the February Payroll to calculate what could potentially be due to each business and the February payroll should already have been done.

If that gets through Parliament today it is going to block all companies who do quarterly and Annual payrolls from qualifying for anything - Then there is going to be another clause which will exempt even more employer which is more controversial

 

[NooBHA]

Exactly. Many different and varying cases. Which is why I would go down the route I mentioned earlier of basing any compensation on the total net income on the previous year's (or three year's) tax return/s. Whether that be PAYE / self employment / dividends / rental income, whatever. It's been declared and the tax has been assessed so what difference is there between that and someone who pays their tax monthly?

A lot of people have multiple sources of income. "Self employment" is just a blanket term. E.g. I have a client who works as a supply teacher through various agencies on PAYE but is also a climbing guide (self employed).

Another is self employed but also receives a dividend from her father's company which she does some work for.

Etc etc etc.......

It's the Employers who claim the Grant though - Not the individuals

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

No it isn't - Initial reading of the Bill suggests that they are going to use the February Payroll to calculate what could potentially be due to each business and the February payroll should already have been done.

If that gets through Parliament today it is going to block all companies who do quarterly and Annual payrolls from qualifying for anything - Then there is going to be another clause which will exempt even more employer which is more controversial

Presumably any company that offers overtime, or unpaid days off, will do a monthly payroll as it varies each month ?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Best conservative government in my lifetime. Never thought i would be pro Tory. Well done Boris.

1.So far it's all words, no action. The employed haven't got their 80%, the self-employed have f*ck all, the NHS is under-equipped and under-staffed and we're still in the EU Single Market.

2.God forbid if we'd gone down the herd immunity route.

I reserve judgement and await action, not words.