Seasonal Farm Worker Shortage

[Pretty pink fairy]

Cool, no problems then.

only for you
regards
DR

 

[Spiros]

If for sake of argument you only recruit British workers at a viable rate, then the supermarket will continue to squeeze the farmer, they always have, but only to the point that includes the higher rate of pay, so instead of being horrid and demanding supply of £1.00 a punnet, they would have to pay say £1.20 a punnet and pay a decent rate to its British workers.

The supermarkets will continue to be supplied,
.

... by a cheaper producer of strawberries from Holland / spain / somewhere else with cheaper labour. Unless of course we start charging import tariffs on these things post brexit. Instead of selling for a tiny profit the farmer probably sells at a loss or not at all. The ultimate proof that you do indeed "reap what you sow"

 

[One Love]

Yes, yes I do,

Then I suggest you try and look at it objectively.

could you please tell me why Labour promises 20 000 extra police rather than 21 000, for example ?

I don't see why that's relevant unless your only defence is questioning the opposition. Do you even follow the Tories in that? I didn't vote Labour.

 

[BigGully]

... by a cheaper producer of strawberries from Holland / spain / somewhere else with cheaper labour. Unless of course we start charging import tariffs on these things post brexit. Instead of selling for a tiny profit the farmer probably sells at a loss or not at all. The ultimate proof that you do indeed "reap what you sow"

Well of course, I wholly agree with half of what you say, whether the produce is then sourced from Holland, Spain or or somewhere else is an issue, but if you accept that a UK based enterprise might be preferable then it would confirm that current rates of pay between UK and for example eastern Europe is a serious consideration.

I thought the crux of the argument was how the darstedly supermarkets squeeze the supplier and how the UK workers are offered an unsustainable wage whilst other EU citizens can receive a rate of pay that is unfairly rewarding and comparitively weightered towards workers from elsewhere.

Your example seems to include Spain and Holland with I guess a similar minimum wage anyway, so competition is equitable, but that isnt reaslly the point.

 

[cloud]

the EU seasonal workers , you make it sound like no other country has the same process, how do they cope

Really, which countries are these?

The Czech Republic, for one https://portal.mpsv.cz/sz/zahr_zam/zz_zamest_cizincu/zz_zamest_ciz

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

And the fact they can't afford anything anymore due to EU free-trade being sacked off. I feel for the Remainers but If you voted for Brexit then tough shit, you have to live with the consequences.

They won. They need to get over it...

 

[heathgate]

Speaking here as someone who has been on both sides of this.
I worked in Spain and my wage was low, 12 hours a day, seven days a week.
Meanwhile here now I need 6 summer staff. British atitude is to turn up when they feel like it, go home early and never do any work when they are here. Foriegn staff turn up on time, work hard, ask for more hours and never let me down. All are on minimum wage plus bonus plus holiday pay.
Taking this past weekend as an example. Foriegn started at 9 am. British strolled in at 10:15 and sat down to eat breakfast.
British staff just don't want to work, end of.

..... are you for real...?.. that says more about your ability to sort out wheat from chaff during the interview process. Sack them and recruit others until you get the productivity you desire.

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[heathgate]

28 replies and no one's mentioned the word 'supermarkets'?

Farms can't afford to pay workers high wages because the supermarkets are always leaning on them, forcing the prices down and squeezing the farmers' margins in order to safeguard their own. And many farmers know that the supermarkets control the food market, so without them the farms would quickly go out of business.

And one reason the supermarkets do that (besides paying shareholders' dividends) is that their customers are used to buying cheap food that is really below the real cost price in some cases.

If the UK farming industry is to be sustainable into the long term future, people are just going to have to get used to paying a realistic price for things. And the supermarket shareholders are going to have to become less greedy. Neither of those are particularly likely to happen.

"Squeezing the farmers margins".... that's the bit that I don't get.... I live in a rural part of the world, I can tell that there aren't many poor ones. New expensive recreational vehicles, selling fields for housing @230k per acre, selling off barn conversions for ridiculous prices in the 2nd home or holiday let markets. I wont even mention EU subsidies.

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[heathgate]

... by a cheaper producer of strawberries from Holland / spain / somewhere else with cheaper labour. Unless of course we start charging import tariffs on these things post brexit. Instead of selling for a tiny profit the farmer probably sells at a loss or not at all. The ultimate proof that you do indeed "reap what you sow"

...a good example of how the EU has failed. You cannot have a common market trading bloc where you get undercutting of prices and wages simply based on social and geopolitical conditions in one or other of the member states. Common means common, so for it to have ever worked, the EU should have adopted from the outset, a common minimum wage, and a common pricing structure.

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[drew]

I can read without capitals by the way.

Without studying the issue how can I or you know what is the appropriate number of nurses might be, do we go by the unions or privately drafted paper, I can only go on my own experiences which have been fantastic, at the same time when I walk through a hospital I am amazed at the size of the buildings, the staffing levels and equipment everywhere, at least if you walked into Apple Inc. you can appreciate the £Billions worth of sales at the other end but the scale of the NHS its pretty daunting.

Is that a serious comment? 'I am amazed at the size of the buildings, the staffing levels and equipment everywhere'! It may appear that staffing levels are high but a quarter of NHS trusts have vacancy levels of 15%, that's about 1 in 6 positions not filled. EU applications are down so where do they get the staff from? You can't train the replacements overnight but apparently we can stop them coming from the EU by our actions. Your care or that of your families is down to the hard work of the staff but it is reaching breaking point. Great to see you only seem to measure success by the number of sales whereas the NHS will measure it by successful outcomes!!!

 

[sod1]

Having lived in Romania now for around six weeks one thing I have noticed is that there are probably enough people here to cover the shortage but they cannot even afford the cost of transport to the UK

 

[pastafarian]

People need to get a grip on reality, you are never going to get UK residents to sign up to seasonal farm work unless it is on their doorstep. The nature of the business requires people to be flexible and transient. Why on earth would anyone who has rent commitments move away and pay rent to a gangmaster and farm and pay rent as well for their own property.
Its not that Brits wont do the work, that myth is a lie as thousands upon thousands do work the land, its just not practical unless the jobs are close by.
What we need is a return of the The Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme, this scheme only finished in late 2013 because of EU expansion. It set limits on how many workers could be employed to give balance to the needs of UK workers who seek employment also. It was ran through gov agents to stop exploitation and permits were granted for a few months only to employees. After this period the workers went home. Everyone is happy including the workers.

Ive heard rumblings of its return and I suspect(my own opinion) in the future it will form part of immigration policy again as we leave the EU.

Its called managing immigration, its not a difficult concept, countries all over the world do it.

So before you listen to the fools of doom and gloom who say everything is impossible,we are screwed, you are going to pay through the roof for carrots….. cast your mind back to real policies and schemes that worked in the past.
Listen less to those who wish failure at every turn.

 

[pastafarian]

Having lived in Romania now for around six weeks one thing I have noticed is that there are probably enough people here to cover the shortage but they cannot even afford the cost of transport to the UK

Have all the flights and coaches from Rumania to UK stopped then due to they cant afford the travel prices?

 

[Trufflehound]

... by a cheaper producer of strawberries from Holland .... somewhere else with cheaper labour.

Minimum wage in the Netherlands is slightly higher than in the UK.

If anything makes their produce cheaper, it's down to economies of scale due to the vast ocean of glasshouses in Zuid-Holland.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Having lived in Romania now for around six weeks one thing I have noticed is that there are probably enough people here to cover the shortage but they cannot even afford the cost of transport to the UK

Just of interest, what's the average wage where you are?

What about the job situation and general cost of living, and more importantly does it feel less congested like the UK, are they building zillions of new homes to keep up with the numbers entering the country.

 

[vegster]

Is it me or is this whole thing somewhat unsavoury? You've got UK farms bemoaning their inability to attract migrant workers from Eastern Europe because of Brexit uncertainty and a weak pound, but surely there's an issue of slave wages being paid etc. I appreciate UK farming is 'on its knees' but to bemoan not being able to essentially 'exploit' cheap Albanian labour stinks somewhat, to me anyway.

There was a fruit farmer on the radio a few weeks ago worrying that he may not have enough pickers this year and in future. he said it was virtually impossible to recruit British workers to the job.. his quote went something like this ...." The job is seasonal with long hours and the work is backbreaking and tedious but we pay the minimum wage ? " can anyone else see the potential problem within his statement ?

 

[BigGully]

Is that a serious comment? 'I am amazed at the size of the buildings, the staffing levels and equipment everywhere'! It may appear that staffing levels are high but a quarter of NHS trusts have vacancy levels of 15%, that's about 1 in 6 positions not filled. EU applications are down so where do they get the staff from? You can't train the replacements overnight but apparently we can stop them coming from the EU by our actions. Your care or that of your families is down to the hard work of the staff but it is reaching breaking point. Great to see you only seem to measure success by the number of sales whereas the NHS will measure it by successful outcomes!!!

Well if ever there was a misinterpretation of a post then there you have it.

My comment was about the sheer scale of the NHS and how next time you visit just take it in a bit more, the comparison which wasnt really a comparison anyway was more how can you possibly adequately fund it whilst at least google or Apple Inc. have a revenue stream at the other end, it seems a little daft that you couldn't quite see that.

It seems reasonable that if you need to fill vacancies then it would be preferable to train up British workers to do that job and if it is unachievable then I am sure any government can incentivise recruitment other ways.

I dont claim to be an expert on the NHS, I have rarely used it but when I have the care has been first class as it has been in other countries I have lived so I do not know if the NHS is the best, but it seems wonderfully accessible.

I suspect that at some point it would help if there was a grown up discussion, I doubt the nasty Tories are wishing for the NHS to fail as I doubt that Labour are the sole saviours of it either.

 

[Blue3]

People need to get a grip on reality, you are never going to get UK residents to sign up to seasonal farm work unless it is on their doorstep. The nature of the business requires people to be flexible and transient. Why on earth would anyone who has rent commitments move away and pay rent to a gangmaster and farm and pay rent as well for their own property.
Its not that Brits wont do the work, that myth is a lie as thousands upon thousands do work the land, its just not practical unless the jobs are close by.
What we need is a return of the The Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme, this scheme only finished in late 2013 because of EU expansion. It set limits on how many workers could be employed to give balance to the needs of UK workers who seek employment also. It was ran through gov agents to stop exploitation and permits were granted for a few months only to employees. After this period the workers went home. Everyone is happy including the workers.

Ive heard rumblings of its return and I suspect(my own opinion) in the future it will form part of immigration policy again as we leave the EU.

Its called managing immigration, its not a difficult concept, countries all over the world do it.

So before you listen to the fools of doom and gloom who say everything is impossible,we are screwed, you are going to pay through the roof for carrots….. cast your mind back to real policies and schemes that worked in the past.
Listen less to those who wish failure at every turn.

Agree with most of your points that this maybe the way we will go but and there is always a but carrots have gone up in price as has many items and way above inflation butter for instance has over the past four months gone from 0.90 for Asdas own brand to now being £1.20 a 25% increase.
I Am sure this is due to a number of factors but lack of EU workers, inflaton and opportunism must influence this

 

[pastafarian]

It seems reasonable that if you need to fill vacancies then it would be preferable to train up British workers to do that job and if it is unachievable then I am sure any government can incentivise recruitment other ways.

I dont claim to be an expert on the NHS, I have rarely used it but when I have the care has been first class as it has been in other countries I have lived so I do not know if the NHS is the best, but it seems wonderfully accessible.

This,
We should move away from the rhetoric the NHS is wonderful because it employs so many different foreigners. This fact is not a Win,it is a failure, a failure of successive governments to invest in the NHS and its staff and the British workforce.
There are countries in europe that have nothing like our % of reliance on foreign sources for labour with regards to healthcare.

But it is still a great institution in principle,even if you have a horrible shocking experience at the hand of imbeciles more than once.

 

[drew]

This,
We should move away from the rhetoric the NHS is wonderful because it employs so many different foreigners. This fact is not a Win,it is a failure, a failure of successive governments to invest in the NHS and its staff and the British workforce.
There are countries in europe that have nothing like our % of reliance on foreign sources for labour with regards to healthcare.

But it is still a great institution in principle,even if you have a horrible shocking experience at the hand of imbeciles more than once.

There are plenty of European countries that pay considerably more towards their healthcare as a percentage of GDP! Maybe if we paid the staff a fair salary then more UK citizens would be willing to train (provided of course the incumbent government agrees to provide the training places!!!!