Seasonal Farm Worker Shortage

[Thunder Bolt]

I simply mentioned applicants paying in response to you being seemingly perplexed at how this might be funded.

I'm not seemingly perplexed by the issue. I was asking PPF for his point of view. I know about civil servants as I was one. I also know how a lot of public services are slowly grinding to a halt due to Government cuts. Yes, I am willing to pay a bit more tax even though my income is only just over the lower threshold.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes this is it in a nutshell. People born and living in the UK basically get so many benefits these days IT DOES NOT PAY them to work. A relative of mine lost their job after 15 years as their firm went bust and even with benefit caps etc their council tax saving, benefits etc mean that she was only £20 per MONTH worse off not working. Now to suggest to these type of people - go work in a field for 60 hours a week, pay your own travelling expenses, pay tax and national insurance on that and lose your council tax benefit so you end up over £100 a week LESS , its just not going to happen. Until the government allow people to keep benefits and work but maybe they have to pay higher rate tax , this situation will persist.

Compare that with the European summer intake of workers - they come here for a working holiday in the caravans - low overheads, no council tax bills, probably can even park their caravans where they work, earn the money (and like others have said probably 4 times what they would get in Eastern Europe - say Ukraine). Summers over they go home, nice wedge in their pockets that helps them survive the winter months. Good luck to them.

Let's not forget this works the other way around with Brits going all over Europe to do seasonal work. Maybe instead of moaning about Brits not doing the jobs we should market seasonal work in nice parts of Europe to the residents of Lincolnshire?

This? Or this?

 

[Two Professors]

Wonder if the job adverts are being placed in the wrong publications?Is there an 'Economics Graduates' magazine?

 

[Stat Brother]

Let's not forget this works the other way around with Brits going all over Europe to do seasonal work. Maybe instead of moaning about Brits not doing the jobs we should market seasonal work in nice parts of Europe to the residents of Lincolnshire?

This? Or this?

I guess I should be flattered.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It wasn't in the context of future enrolment after Brexit, it was a direct quote of how he had thought foreign nurses not a few but 96% had left since Brexit, you probably thought the same, the magnitude of the percentage in response to the post wouldn't lend itself to a 'got my wires crossed' or 'wrong end of stick' stuff, its clearly a stat he thought was accurate.

He? An assumption.

 

[abc]

Is it me or is this whole thing somewhat unsavoury? You've got UK farms bemoaning their inability to attract migrant workers from Eastern Europe because of Brexit uncertainty and a weak pound, but surely there's an issue of slave wages being paid etc. I appreciate UK farming is 'on its knees' but to bemoan not being able to essentially 'exploit' cheap Albanian labour stinks somewhat, to me anyway.

Your premise is actually wrong. Wages are not 'low' and because piece rate is paid can be very high. BUT the work can be extremely hard and not what many of our 'locals' are prepared to do. Not a criticism but a fact. Hard manual labour is no longer 'the norm' in our society. If pay rates were doubled (which would mean supermarkets and ultimately you and I would have to pay) it would make little difference.

 

[BigGully]

Having spoken to a few farmers about this in the past they suggest it's more supermarkets operating near monopolies and driving prices down. Given farmers have near zero margins and staff are paid the minimum it's pretty clear to me where the issue, and the money, lies.

Until you can somehow disincentivize a unique set of workers that can access a market by virtue of their country of origin with the disparity of that countries pay rates compared to the UK's then normal business models becomes flawed.

Increase price paid by supermarkets to farmers results in increased price to the consumer, increased profits to the farmer and increased profits to the supermarket, whilst the eastern European workers continue to work tirelessly at a UK low rate eastern European high rate.

As an aside, my wifes family are farmers, they are lovely, but my god can they moan.

 

[El Presidente]

If we can't import 'cheap' labour from Europe can we not just import it from elsewhere, I am sure there would be people from poorer countries who would love to work here and then take some well earned money home, or am I being naive?

They are unlikely to pass the criteria for a job as non EU labour is only allowed if a points based system is satisfied.

 

[BBassic]

There was some post on Twitter earlier about a Leave voting fruit grower who employs 2,500 workers from all over Europe who is now worried his business will fail.

This Tweet:

[tweet]877781441404424192[/tweet]

 

[The Birdman]

It's partly because pound has fallen and the economics of the countries they have come from are improving.
I believe the overseas workers will be welcome here but it will be important that the British encomny and the pound picks up after brexit otherwise we won't be attractive for workers coming here for work and will only help the benefits scrounges.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

In the 19th century all the east end cockneys would march off to Kent for a season of hop picking and then spend the money on cheap gin. Bring back the good old days!

 

[studio150]

Is it me or is this whole thing somewhat unsavoury? You've got UK farms bemoaning their inability to attract migrant workers from Eastern Europe because of Brexit uncertainty and a weak pound, but surely there's an issue of slave wages being paid etc. I appreciate UK farming is 'on its knees' but to bemoan not being able to essentially 'exploit' cheap Albanian labour stinks somewhat, to me anyway.

What's Brexit got to do with Albania?

or have I missed something and Albania is now an EU member state.

 

[nicko31]

Your premise is actually wrong. Wages are not 'low' and because piece rate is paid can be very high. BUT the work can be extremely hard and not what many of our 'locals' are prepared to do. Not a criticism but a fact. Hard manual labour is no longer 'the norm' in our society. If pay rates were doubled (which would mean supermarkets and ultimately you and I would have to pay) it would make little difference.

Its hard work but if you work hard its good pay, you can get ahead.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Ah, Lincolnshire. One of the regions at the heart of the Brexit campaign. It's all working well for them by the looks of things. Next thing you know they'll be complaining about staff shortages in hospitals making them wait for their appointments.

96% of EU nurses have gone back since the referendum.

No they haven't. It's applications from EU nurses to work here that have gone down by 96%

Sorry. I got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

No you didnt you were just totally wrong.

As a statement of fact, she's clearly wrong, yes. The 96% reduction was in applicants to work as nurses, rather than those currently here, clearing off.

But her point still stands doesn't it? Either way it adds up to nursing posts not being filled, and services being reduced as a result.

It really is a no win situation. Yay.

 

[Stat Brother]

As a statement of fact, she's clearly wrong, yes. The 96% reduction was in applicants to work as nurses, rather than those currently here, clearing off.

But her point still stands doesn't it? Either way it adds up to nursing posts not being filled, and services being reduced as a result.

It really is a no win situation, until the NHS gets it's £350,000,000 a week Yay.

Now it makes sense.

 

[Albion in the north]

28 replies and no one's mentioned the word 'supermarkets'?

Farms can't afford to pay workers high wages because the supermarkets are always leaning on them, forcing the prices down and squeezing the farmers' margins in order to safeguard their own. And many farmers know that the supermarkets control the food market, so without them the farms would quickly go out of business.

And one reason the supermarkets do that (besides paying shareholders' dividends) is that their customers are used to buying cheap food that is really below the real cost price in some cases.

If the UK farming industry is to be sustainable into the long term future, people are just going to have to get used to paying a realistic price for things. And the supermarket shareholders are going to have to become less greedy. Neither of those are particularly likely to happen.

Stop talking sense. You don't belong on this thread.
How dare you blame the greed of the supermarkets when you could have just as easily made it all political and blamed Brexit/Remoaners/The EU/The minimum wage etc

 

[Albion in the north]

What's Brexit got to do with Albania?

or have I missed something and Albania is now an EU member state.

Didnt you know? When/If Brexit happens nobody will be allowed to enter or leave this country. Ever. Or so Im led to believe.

 

[BigGully]

As a statement of fact, she's clearly wrong, yes. The 96% reduction was in applicants to work as nurses, rather than those currently here, clearing off.

But her point still stands doesn't it? Either way it adds up to nursing posts not being filled, and services being reduced as a result.

It really is a no win situation. Yay.

No it doesnt, 96% of nurses leaving and 96% of a reduction in applications is completely different.

Personally I am fed up with the NHS being used as a political football, my family have had quite brilliant care, you either want a Corbyns approach of spend more and staff increases and then assume better care or a Tory approach of trying to find that point where the care remains high and the staffing levels appropriate.

The left or the right will never agree and nearly everything written about the NHS perhaps inevitably is politically driven.

 

[mr sheen]

In the 19th century all the east end cockneys would march off to Kent for a season of hop picking and then spend the money on cheap gin. Bring back the good old days!

My father used to go hopping in Kent from Hove in as a child in the 1950s.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

No it doesnt, 96% of nurses leaving and 96% of a reduction in applications is completely different.

Personally I am fed up with the NHS being used as a political football, my family have had quite brilliant care, you either want a Corbyns approach of spend more and staff increases and then assume better care or a Tory approach of trying to find that point where the care remains high and the staffing levels appropriate.

The left or the right will never agree and nearly everything written about the NHS perhaps inevitably is politically driven.

It's 'different' yes, but the result is the same - nursing posts unfilled, leading to reduced services.

Are Labour's proposals to INCREASE staff then? Or just to stop CUTTING numbers from where they are / were?