Season Ticket Renewals

[Smythe]

Dear Supporter,

Well, as another thrilling season reaches its climax, we're still in there battling to retain our third division status. Will we stay up ? Will we go down ? WHO KNOWS ? You see thats the beauty of football - you just never know whats around the corner ! Along the way there has been the inevitable ups and downs, thrills and spills, sackings, resignations and mutual consents. As I write these notes, our current manager is preparing the team for that all-important run in. We know not how these games will go, but one thing I can guarantee you, it'll be goals goals GOALS *

Enclosed is your season ticket renewal pack. Obviously in the current financial climate, it would be remiss of us not to request a small increase in cost, so you will notice the price will have gone up by on average around 10%. We feel this is reasonable, being as interest rates are now next to nothing so your mortgages will be costing you bugger all, right ? And come on - these sackings don't pay for themselves you know. You wanted him sacked as well.
Yes. You. Did.

So please fill out the form and send your cheques to the usual address. I look forward to seeing you again in August come rain or shine, L1 or L2, Slade or no Slade. You know it makes sense.
Your friend,

Uncle D.
xx

* in accepting this, you agree to the possibilty a large percentage of these goals could be conceded, not scored. Goal difference could go up or down, the management accept no responsibilty for loss of games and/or L1 status. Your statutory rights are not affected.

many a true season ticket renewal letter said in jest!

 

[Pavilionaire]

I've been going since 2000-01 and have shared a season ticket with a mate for the last 3 seasons, but I won't be renewing and neither will he.

However, IF the club offered a deal on Falmer season tickets I might be interested, i.e. take an 09/10 season ticket and you'll be given off £100 for a Falmer season ticket then I might be interested.

The club can't realistically offer much of a price reduction now because player contracts have to be honoured so many of the running costs are fixed, but they CAN give a discount on a Falmer season ticket. If they offered the same deal for 2010/11 then a £450 season ticket in Falmer would only cost me £250 with my discounts.

Sure, the club lose £200 in 2 year's time but get c. £1,100 in the meantime.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

The club have marketed this travel thing completely wrong. On a match day there are numerous elements to the 'transport' costs: the provision of stewards to marshall the area, the park and ride, the free travel, the admin involved in monitoring all of this etc etc. Why the club single out one element (the free bus/train bit) defeats me. This just causes people who walk to the ground to question why they pay for it. I look at all four of these as general match day overheads...which we all use to varying degrees directly or indirectly.

If people do want the bus/train bit sectioned off, then I will also ask the club for a complete breakdown of my match day ticket and only pay for the bits I use or want to pay for. First up will be a deduction for my contribution to Kerry Mayo's wages.

I don't think it's the club that's focuses narrowly on the bus/train voucher aspects of the TMS but a number of supporters who seem unwilling to accept that the cost of the scheme should be absorbed in the general ticket price. Perhaps the club could re-state what the TMS entails but how many times should you need to take the horse to the water?
The dissenters may find the Falmer TMS even more interesting.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I would argue that if somebody gets a free train ride from Haywards Heath or Seaford or Worthing then they're contributing a lot less to the fund than somebody who lives in Brighton or Hove who doesn't use the travel voucher.

Sorry, you've lost me here.

If the TMS costs £X per week to run and the costs are "covered" by adding £5 (your figure just for the train/bus voucher btw) to the price of each ticket then if 50% of the average gate (say 6,000) opt out of paying then the club's income is down £15K per game. It still has the TMS to pay for because that is condition of palying at Withdean and £15K per game equates to £345K per league season. Where do you expect this shortfall going to come from when we're currently losing £2.8M per year (2006/7)?

 

[Brovion]

Sorry, you've lost me here.

If the TMS costs £X per week to run and the costs are "covered" by adding £5 (your figure just for the train/bus voucher btw) to the price of each ticket then if 50% of the average gate (say 6,000) opt out of paying then the club's income is down £15K per game. It still has the TMS to pay for because that is condition of palying at Withdean and £15K per game equates to £345K per league season. Where do you expect this shortfall going to come from when we're currently losing £2.8M per year (2006/7)?

With respect Mr oo! oo! I think you miss the point. The travel voucher has value, people from outside the area can use it to get something for nothing, i..e. if the voucher wasn't there people would have to pay for their bus or train tickets. Those of us who walk do not see any benefit, we pay the same price for a ticket but unlike the out-of towners there is no saving for us; we are being forced to pay a premium surcharge for the privilge of living near Withdean.

I appreciate the transport scheme has to be funded, but like THPP over the years I've come to deeply resent the fact that every time I buy match tickets I am, in effect, being forced into buying bus/train tickets as well. I've no objections to the vouchers being an integeral part of the ticket, but we should be able to redeem the unused ones against say our next match ticket or against a purchase from the club shop.

In other words the burden of funding the transport scheme should be shared by all fans equally, not just those who don't use the vouchers.

 

[Tooting Gull]

I agree with Brovion. You can incentivise people as much as you like to use public transport - but sometimes you either don't need to (walking), or are forced to use the car through time pressure.

I dunno what the maximum benefit that can be derived from the travel voucher part of the ticket is (£4-5?) but that is a huge difference in price for someone who is getting no benefit, and redemption of those seems fair.

But of course, I'm one of those evil people who drives to Withdean when I do get the chance, because it saves about two hours on a train round-trip and makes it possible. Normally on my own as well, so that's me f**ked for the Falmer car park too by the sounds of it. Oh well, it's not like we need the support, is it...as long as it conforms to someone's idea of what we should all be doing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't think it's the club that's focuses narrowly on the bus/train voucher aspects of the TMS but a number of supporters who seem unwilling to accept that the cost of the scheme should be absorbed in the general ticket price. Perhaps the club could re-state what the TMS entails but how many times should you need to take the horse to the water?
The dissenters may find the Falmer TMS even more interesting.

Fair comments.

 

[Napper]

i know of many that will renew only if the costs are spread across more than 3 direct debits, if they don't do this then I fear what the renewal numbers will be

 

[pasty]

I hope instalments will be spread out a little more this year. 6 months would be handy. The board have got to realise lots of people are out of work and can't afford big lump sums.

As alot of people have said, 6 months to pay would be a big help

offer longer payment terms we could be tempted.

i know of many that will renew only if the costs are spread across more than 3 direct debits, if they don't do this then I fear what the renewal numbers will be

I asked about this on the ask the club forum. Under consideration apparently.

http://www.northstandchat.biz/showthread.php?t=145687

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Smaller squad, and 300 a ticket is my ideal.

Getting shot of Hawkins, Mayo, Hart, McCloud and Virgo will trim the squad adequately and probably cut down on the wages bill significantly with no discernible loss of skill to the team.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

With respect Mr oo! oo! I think you miss the point. The travel voucher has value, people from outside the area can use it to get something for nothing, i..e. if the voucher wasn't there people would have to pay for their bus or train tickets. Those of us who walk do not see any benefit, we pay the same price for a ticket but unlike the out-of towners there is no saving for us; we are being forced to pay a premium surcharge for the privilge of living near Withdean.

I appreciate the transport scheme has to be funded, but like THPP over the years I've come to deeply resent the fact that every time I buy match tickets I am, in effect, being forced into buying bus/train tickets as well. I've no objections to the vouchers being an integeral part of the ticket, but we should be able to redeem the unused ones against say our next match ticket or against a purchase from the club shop.

This is not the case though; the travel voucher has no value, it is free and the club has always said this. Some clearly want to abscribe an arbitary value to it but then why not do so for the entire cost of the TMS and opt out of this entirely - ie what is the personal "benefit" to you in having road patrols, parking stewards, road closures, extra buses, park and rides etc?

Frankly, if someone's going to give me a £5 ticket rebate (THPP's figure) then I'd seriously consider parking my car in Valley Drive, Tongdean Lane, Mill Rise etc (there's nothing illegal about doing so) and this (imo) will happen generally if your suggestion were adopted

In other words the burden of funding the transport scheme should be shared by all fans equally, not just those who don't use the vouchers.

I think that's where we are now, don't you and I pay the same price for a ticket?

 

[Brovion]

This is not the case though; the travel voucher has no value, it is free and the club has always said this. Some clearly want to abscribe an arbitary value to it but then why not do so for the entire cost of the TMS and opt out of this entirely - ie what is the personal "benefit" to you in having road patrols, parking stewards, road closures, extra buses, park and rides etc?

Frankly, if someone's going to give me a £5 ticket rebate (THPP's figure) then I'd seriously consider parking my car in Valley Drive, Tongdean Lane, Mill Rise etc (there's nothing illegal about doing so) and this (imo) will happen generally if your suggestion were adopted


I think that's where we are now, don't you and I pay the same price for a ticket?

Sorry, I fundementally disagree; the travel voucher may be given away free but it DOES have value. Granted it has no material value - but neither has a £5 note. However both can be exchanged for services, and that's my point - if you weren't giving the travel companies the travel vouchers you WOULD be giving them £5 notes!

Re my last sentence, no sorry, on re-reading it it didn't make much sense. The point I'm trying to make is the travel scheme is NOT free, somebody is paying for it. At the moment that 'somebody' is all the fans equally. And some of us, not matter how you try and justify it, are hacked of at having to make a contribution to something that we do not use. And yes, if you could somehow work out how to load the entire cost of the scheme (parking stewards, buses etc) on to the out-of-towners that would be great.

Maybe discounted tickets for local BN1 residents would be the answer?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

This is not the case though; the travel voucher has no value, it is free and the club has always said this. Some clearly want to abscribe an arbitary value to it but then why not do so for the entire cost of the TMS and opt out of this entirely - ie what is the personal "benefit" to you in having road patrols, parking stewards, road closures, extra buses, park and rides etc?

How can you say it 'has no value'? The travel voucher can be used on B&H buses in lieu of paying £3.60 for a return ticket. Similarly, to state the bleeding obvious, it can be used in lieu of paying for a return ticket from Shoreham, Haywards Heath or Seaford. Not sure what the return fare is from any of these places, but I'm pretty sure it has to be in the same ball park - as it were - as the return bus fare.

Got no problem whatsoever with the ticket price reflecting the cost of the TMS - apart from the public transport element of the TMS that many of us don't use. So I'd quite like me £3.60 back.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Sorry, I fundementally disagree; the travel voucher may be given away free but it DOES have value. Granted it has no material value - but neither has a £5 note. However both can be exchanged for services, and that's my point - if you weren't giving the travel companies the travel vouchers you WOULD be giving them £5 notes!?

I don't believe anyone would be paying B&H Buses, Stagecoach, Southern etc anything. The travel voucher system is a pivotal part of the TMS and without it I can't see that the City's Council would have granted the Club's planning applications to play at Withdean, the most recent being last summer. No TMS, no football at Withdean, no £5 notes and no BHA.

Re my last sentence, no sorry, on re-reading it it didn't make much sense. The point I'm trying to make is the travel scheme is NOT free, somebody is paying for it. At the moment that 'somebody' is all the fans equally. And some of us, not matter how you try and justify it, are hacked of at having to make a contribution to something that we do not use. And yes, if you could somehow work out how to load the entire cost of the scheme (parking stewards, buses etc) on to the out-of-towners that would be great.

Maybe discounted tickets for local BN1 residents would be the answer?

So is this the nub of it - that the entire costs of the TMS should be born by supporters living outside of Brighton and Hove? Will you now be writing to the govt requesting a Tax/NI refund because you haven't been to your GP for years?
The TMS is designed to encourage the fans to use public transport for getting to games, to avoid traffic congestion in the Withdean area and to minimise disruption to the local residents, particularly that caused by fans parking on the street. These objectives don't seem too bad an idea to me, nor to Brighton & Hove City Council which is why the TMS is a condition of the Withdean planning consent.
I don't think the club can do much about it but this is your Council with 30 or so elected councillors who can be readily contacted, lobbied etc., they are electorally accountable to you, THPP and the rest of the City residents. If you don't like the TMS then get on to your local councillor(s) and try to get the policy changed; don't keep whinging about the how hard done by you feel, expect someone else to pay for it all (particularly as there is clear benefits for local residents), whilst at the same time making out that any Albion fan residing outside of BN1 is some kind of sponging antichrist.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

How can you say it 'has no value'? The travel voucher can be used on B&H buses in lieu of paying £3.60 for a return ticket. Similarly, to state the bleeding obvious, it can be used in lieu of paying for a return ticket from Shoreham, Haywards Heath or Seaford. Not sure what the return fare is from any of these places, but I'm pretty sure it has to be in the same ball park - as it were - as the return bus fare.

Because it's free and included in the ticket price.
Additional Travel Voucher - North Stand Chat

£3.60 - I doubt that the club pays B&HB anything like that (as you already know).
Travel Voucher - North Stand Chat

Got no problem whatsoever with the ticket price reflecting the cost of the TMS - apart from the public transport element of the TMS that many of us don't use. So I'd quite like me £3.60 back.

Don't understand the logic. You're contending that you shouldn't pay towards the public transport element of the TMS because you don't use it but are seemingly happy to do so for the other elements. Do you personally use or benefit from any of these?

 

[Brovion]

I don't believe anyone would be paying B&H Buses, Stagecoach, Southern etc anything. The travel voucher system is a pivotal part of the TMS and without it I can't see that the City's Council would have granted the Club's planning applications to play at Withdean, the most recent being last summer. No TMS, no football at Withdean, no £5 notes and no BHA.



So is this the nub of it - that the entire costs of the TMS should be born by supporters living outside of Brighton and Hove? Will you now be writing to the govt requesting a Tax/NI refund because you haven't been to your GP for years?
The TMS is designed to encourage the fans to use public transport for getting to games, to avoid traffic congestion in the Withdean area and to minimise disruption to the local residents, particularly that caused by fans parking on the street. These objectives don't seem too bad an idea to me, nor to Brighton & Hove City Council which is why the TMS is a condition of the Withdean planning consent.
I don't think the club can do much about it but this is your Council with 30 or so elected councillors who can be readily contacted, lobbied etc., they are electorally accountable to you, THPP and the rest of the City residents. If you don't like the TMS then get on to your local councillor(s) and try to get the policy changed; don't keep whinging about the how hard done by you feel, expect someone else to pay for it all (particularly as there is clear benefits for local residents), whilst at the same time making out that any Albion fan residing outside of BN1 is some kind of sponging antichrist.

Jeez calm down. Firstly in my previous posts I don't really think I've described Albion fans outside of BN1 as the spawn of Satan, and secondly it's a bit disingenious for you to say I/we should write to our Councillors to try and get the TMS system modified. You know full well that current thinking is to encourage people to use public transport and anything that appears to go against that stands absolutely no chance of being passed. For all the good writing to my councillors will do I may as well petition the queen, so that idea's a non-starter.

Consequently asking the club IS the right course of action as they are the ones who are in the position to make some sort of concession. After all we are 'perfect' inasmuch as we don't use the vouchers (thus saving the club money) and we don't drive into the exclusion zone, thus risking the club being fined for breaking the terms of the TMS. I don't think that asking for some recompense deserves us being labelled as 'whingers who feel hard done by'. We are simply a group whom the club overlooked initially and have ignored ever since - and your attitude ("just pay the money and shut up") isn't helping.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Because it's free and included in the ticket price.
Additional Travel Voucher - North Stand Chat

£3.60 - I doubt that the club pays B&HB anything like that (as you already know).
Travel Voucher - North Stand Chat



Don't understand the logic. You're contending that you shouldn't pay towards the public transport element of the TMS because you don't use it but are seemingly happy to do so for the other elements. Do you personally use or benefit from any of these?

Sorry mate, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

The way I see it is the match ticket is very expensive. Some fans get to offset that cost by saving up to a fiver on public transport costs, thereby making the whole package reasonably good value. Some fans don't get to offset that cost and just end up paying for a very expensive match ticket. Can't really make my viewpoint any clearer

 

[The Large One]

Sorry mate, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

The way I see it is the match ticket is very expensive. Some fans get to offset that cost by saving up to a fiver on public transport costs, thereby making the whole package reasonably good value. Some fans don't get to offset that cost and just end up paying for a very expensive match ticket. Can't really make my viewpoint any clearer

So is that what's driving your opinion of the TMS expense - the fact that match tickets are expensive?

Would you feel the same about chipping in with the cost of the TMS if match tickets were, say, £10?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So is that what's driving your opinion of the TMS expense - the fact that match tickets are expensive?

Would you feel the same about chipping in with the cost of the TMS if match tickets were, say, £10?

Yes. Yes I would. Anything that drives the basic price of a match ticket down can surely only be good for attendences overall surely. If a standard non-STH match ticket could be pitched at under a psychological £20 barrier, more people would be encouraged to go IMHO. If that price included a standard TMS element that was applicable to all fans equally, then that would be fine and fair also.

 

[The Large One]

Yes. Yes I would. Anything that drives the basic price of a match ticket down can surely only be good for attendences overall surely. If a standard non-STH match ticket could be pitched at under a psychological £20 barrier, more people would be encouraged to go IMHO. If that price included a standard TMS element that was applicable to all fans equally, then that would be fine and fair also.

But if the TMS wasn't operating, do you really think the club would be in a position to drop the prices?

Don't forget, it is impossible for the club to break even at the turnstiles, so any reduction in price has to be met somewhere - and the first place to look will be in the directors' pockets.

I agree match tickets under £20 would be fab, but, seeing as STHs would have to be pitched at under £15 in order to make them worthwhile, the club simply cannot afford it at Withdean.

Be different at Falmer, one would hope.