[Albion] Season Ticket Farce @PaulBarber

[Green Cross Code Man]

The vast majority of people on this and other similar threads extrapolate their own circumstances on to the entire fanbase. As you say, the fact is that people don’t actually know but that doesn’t stop them from continuing to assert speculation as fact.

Many people have only related their own experiences with the scheme. There are lots here who are personally affected. Along with any contentious issue, there are always a wide variety of opinions and experiences. There is a large enough sample here to suggest that the number in our entire fanbase in a similar situation would be quite large. Of course that is a subjective figure but it is wrong for you and the the poster whose comment you quoted to suggest that all of us fall into the same boat.

And in any case, just because some people argue in a manner that is speculative, it doesn't negate the real points and experiences with the system that many people have.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Of course the vast majority will be down to Covid but that shouldn't hide the fact that there are a fair number of disenchanted supporters. Do the club care? I'd suggest not from the reply from PB.

Much is said about his stance that he's always right and he will back up his position with some (spurious) numbers. I'd have a lot more time for the club if they took some of the very good issues that get raised here and elsewhere and did some proper research and fact finding. Asking us supporters directly via surveys and other methods is so easy and widely used by businesses that care. It certainly beats the parent/child tone that BHAFC more generally use to back up an argument

This.

Covid has been an excuse so many organisations have hidden behind recently. The club seems to be no different.

 

[sparkie]

Of course the vast majority will be down to Covid but that shouldn't hide the fact that there are a fair number of disenchanted supporters. Do the club care? I'd suggest not from the reply from PB.

Much is said about his stance that he's always right and he will back up his position with some (spurious) numbers. I'd have a lot more time for the club if they took some of the very good issues that get raised here and elsewhere and did some proper research and fact finding. Asking us supporters directly via surveys and other methods is so easy and widely used by businesses that care. It certainly beats the parent/child tone that BHAFC more generally use to back up an argument

Barber's big weakness is his "my way or the highway" attitude. Of course he will see that as a strength.

But doubling down doesn't always work, and his tone sometimes needs ( my opinion ) to be more collaborative and engendering of togetherness.

 

[drew]

This.

Covid has been an excuse so many organisations have hidden behind recently. The club seems to be no different.

A global pandemic with millions dead is a pretty reasonable excuse in most people's eyes. You seem very dismissive of it.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Same speculation as at the beginning of the season that all the absences were due to Summer holidays?

Yes. If someone says definitively that absences are due to a particular reason then they are making it up. However, if they say what they think is likely the case then they are recognizing that none of us actually know.

 

[Rugrat]

Barber's big weakness is his "my way or the highway" attitude. Of course he will see that as a strength.

But doubling down doesn't always work, and his tone sometimes needs ( my opinion ) to be more collaborative and engendering of togetherness.

Agree, and if he backed up his arguments with real life data, not assumptive or extrapolated hypothesis, or a couple of quotes, then I for one would grant him more credibility as indeed I hope many would. We may still not like the outcome of course, but at least we would know the argument is presented from a solid foundation. As it is all I can see is he's a good wordsmith and orator

 

[drew]

Same speculation as at the beginning of the season that all the absences were due to Summer holidays?

Who claimed the reduced numbers at the start of the season were only due to holidays? Pretty sure everyone saw it as a combination. We know from historical attendances over the last few decades that August fixtures are affected by holidays but this year there were still plenty that were wary of covid.

 

[Lower West Stander]

A global pandemic with millions dead is a pretty reasonable excuse in most people's eyes. You seem very dismissive of it.

Not at all.

I am simply pointing out that many organisations have hidden behind it. This is not a thread to debate the pandemic, we all have our views on that.

I agree that most of the absences last Wednesday were due to fears around Covid. But this doesn't mean there aren't other issues at play as well.

 

[drew]

Agree, and if he backed up his arguments with real life data, not assumptive or extrapolated hypothesis, or a couple of quotes, then I for one would grant him more credibility as indeed I hope many would. We may still not like the outcome of course, but at least we would know the argument is presented from a solid foundation. As it is all I can see is he's a good wordsmith and orator

Guess we're still waiting for Bozza to type it all up!!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Many people have only related their own experiences with the scheme. There are lots here who are personally affected. Along with any contentious issue, there are always a wide variety of opinions and experiences. There is a large enough sample here to suggest that the number in our entire fanbase in a similar situation would be quite large. Of course that is a subjective figure but it is wrong for you and the the poster whose comment you quoted to suggest that all of us fall into the same boat.

And in any case, just because some people argue in a manner that is speculative, it doesn't negate the real points and experiences with the system that many people have.

We certainly don’t all fall into the same boat. In fact I am saying the opposite. There are a number of posters though who seem to be trying to speak for all of us when clearly we don’t all agree. I accept some of the points of the counter view. I have used ticket sharing as have many others but I don’t know anybody else who is not a STH so it won’t be of any more use to me. I also take the point about the club giving season ticket holders the option of buying 4 anonymous tickets. I haven’t seen much recognition though of the point repeatedly made that individual tickets in a ST are heavily discounted. There is no right or wrong in this discussion. It comes down to the same as in everything else in life. There are rules and if you don’t like them then don’t buy the product.

 

[Lower West Stander]

We certainly don’t all fall into the same boat. In fact I am saying the opposite. There are a number of posters though who seem to be trying to speak for all of us when clearly we don’t all agree. I accept some of the points of the counter view. I have used ticket sharing as have many others but I don’t know anybody else who is not a STH so it won’t be of any more use to me. I also take the point about the club giving season ticket holders the option of buying 4 anonymous tickets. I haven’t seen much recognition though of the point repeatedly made that individual tickets in a ST are heavily discounted. There is no right or wrong in this discussion. It comes down to the same as in everything else in life. There are rules and if you don’t like them then don’t buy the product.

But isn't that just the point?

We are fans. We will buy the product. Its not like we can go to Tesco if Sainsburys put prices up. We are a captive market and Barber is lucky as a CEO who isn't trying to capture market share - not that football is a proper business anyway. The Amex is technically full for every game - he should be trying to keep us with positivity not trying to avoid losing us with irritating schemes which have marginal benefits to the financing of the club.

 

[dazzer6666]

But isn't that just the point?

We are fans. We will buy the product. Its not like we can go to Tesco if Sainsburys put prices up. We are a captive market and Barber is lucky as a CEO who isn't trying to capture market share - not that football is a proper business anyway. The Amex is technically full for every game - he should be trying to keep us with positivity not trying to avoid losing us with irritating schemes which have marginal benefits to the financing of the club.

Any interpretation (excuses) for the numbers this season will be subject to a high degree of guesswork………first big test will be ST renewals, but given these are due in Feb/March there will be a further (largely unmeasurable) Covid impact. Will be interesting to see what numbers look like if/when we get back to normality. Barber may be looking to fill many gaps over the next couple of seasons.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

But isn't that just the point?

We are fans. We will buy the product. Its not like we can go to Tesco if Sainsburys put prices up. We are a captive market and Barber is lucky as a CEO who isn't trying to capture market share - not that football is a proper business anyway. The Amex is technically full for every game - he should be trying to keep us with positivity not trying to avoid losing us with irritating schemes which have marginal benefits to the financing of the club.

That was certainly the case in the old days. I would imagine we are a similar age and that you, like me, have been watching since the Goldstone. Perhaps though we have different expectations to the modern fan. Life has changed a lot and everything about the PL screams customer rather than fan. More specifically those customers that are likely preferred are youngsters with a large beer and pie bill, young families with cash to spend etc. Those demographics aren’t very likely to be phased by technology to get into the ground nor many of the other gripes aired a lot on this website. The old Brighton has gone but that’s ok because it happens. Us legacy fans just have to find a way of living with it as otherwise we all turn into Jack Dee or Victor Meldrew. The alternative is to move on which I and my family are doing anyway for other reasons.

 

[Nitram]

Yes. If someone says definitively that absences are due to a particular reason then they are making it up. However, if they say what they think is likely the case then they are recognizing that none of us actually know.

Not much fun commenting on posts on NSC if you need complete proof. You can’t have it both ways condemning and commenting as I’m sure you know but you do a nice line in irony as does Drew.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Not much fun commenting on posts on NSC if you need complete proof. You can’t have it both ways condemning and commenting as I’m sure you know but you do a nice line in irony as does Drew.

You only need definitive proof if you are saying something is definitively true.

 

[Bozza]

But isn't that just the point?

We are fans. We will buy the product. Its not like we can go to Tesco if Sainsburys put prices up. We are a captive market and Barber is lucky as a CEO who isn't trying to capture market share - not that football is a proper business anyway. The Amex is technically full for every game - he should be trying to keep us with positivity not trying to avoid losing us with irritating schemes which have marginal benefits to the financing of the club.

Sorry - I'm struggling with time again today, but I wanted to just pick up on a point that you raise which comes up quite often, generally as a stick to hit the club with.

Fans v Customers

Firslty, I don't think these are mutually exclusive.

To treat someone purely as a fan recognises, using your supermarket analogy, the fan can't bin off their choice (Tesco) for another one (Sainsburys). And if you know someone doesn't have a choice, the relationship can be exploited in many ways, including price (high( and service offering (low). And, traditionally in football, that was how it was. Fans were often treated like shit, because clubs knew they'd keep coming back, week after week.

To treat someone as a customer recognises that every element of the "product" and the "experience" offered should be as good as possible. It recognises that customers DO have a choice, and that repeat custom should not be taken for granted.

I'm going to struggle slightly to tie this back to the supermarket analogy, I think, but we DO have a choice. We all choose how we utilise two of our limited resources: leisure time and disposable income.

If a BHAFC customer becomes significantly disenchanted with what they are receiving from the club, they can choose to apportion less time and money going to games. In an extreme example, they could stop going completely. They'd remain a fan, I think - that bond just doesn't go - but they'd cease to become an active customer for a period of time, possibly forever.

And that's where treating fans as customer should work in our favour - the club has an ongoing incentive to not rest on its laurels and continually strive to improve the fan/cusomer experience.

 

[dazzer6666]

Sorry - I'm struggling with time again today, but I wanted to just pick up on a point that you raise which comes up quite often, generally as a stick to hit the club with.

Fans v Customers

Firslty, I don't think these are mutually exclusive.

To treat someone purely as a fan recognises, using your supermarket analogy, the fan can't bin off their choice (Tesco) for another one (Sainsburys). And if you know someone doesn't have a choice, the relationship can be exploited in many ways, including price (high( and service offering (low). And, traditionally in football, that was how it was. Fans were often treated like shit, because clubs knew they'd keep coming back, week after week.

To treat someone as a customer recognises that every element of the "product" and the "experience" offered should be as good as possible. It recognises that customers DO have a choice, and that repeat custom should not be taken for granted.

I'm going to struggle slightly to tie this back to the supermarket analogy, I think, but we DO have a choice. We all choose how we utilise two of our limited resources: leisure time and disposable income.

If a BHAFC customer becomes significantly disenchanted with what they are receiving from the club, they can choose to apportion less time and money going to games. In an extreme example, they could stop going completely. They'd remain a fan, I think - that bond just doesn't go - but they'd cease to become an active customer for a period of time, possibly forever.

And that's where treating fans as customer should work in our favour - the club has an ongoing incentive to not rest on its laurels and continually strive to improve the fan/cusomer experience.

If you’re an STH you’ve got the equivalent of a Tesco Clubcard, but instead of discounts, you have to pay extra for your favourite items and often get less of a choice than someone who doesn’t shop there as often ?

 

[Stat Brother]

This thread doesn't exist if the team were banging in goals and inexplicably out performing it's budget, a la those dim and distant autumnal days of yore.

 

[dazzer6666]

This thread doesn't exist if the team were banging in goals and inexplicably out performing it's budget, a la those dim and distant autumnal days of yore.

Maybe not but there have been enough others on the sharing shambles. Barber would have come out with a robust defence of it at some point (again)

 

[Springal]

Maybe not but there have been enough others on the sharing shambles. Barber would have come out with a robust defence of it at some point (again)

Indeed like people wanging on about bottle tops. When anyone with half a brain either takes a bottle top with them or puts a bottle of drink in their pocket, and just acts discreetly within the ground and gets on with it