Scottish fans could teach English fans a thing or two

[Sussex on Leith]

Thankfully (for my sake) I wasn't watching the Albion disgrace themselves on Saturday, because I'd agreed to meet some workmates in an Edinburgh pub to watch the Scotland vs Holland match. By half time we were exchanging phone numbers and beers with a Dutch couple who'd turned up to see the match, and by mid-evening we'd helped them to find a hotel, and those of us who are going to Amsterdam for the second leg had agreed to meet them for a drink.

And believe me, it WOULD have been the same even if Scotland had got hammered.

Dare I suggest that England's one-eyed, national-anthem-booing fans could learn a few things if they came up here for a few days? And even if Scottish fans do always want England to lose, there's a difference between good-natured banter and outright xenophobia.

I notice that a lot of the ridiculous anti-McGhee rants on NSC make reference to his Scottishness - but then if you're going to judge a manager on four games, you're going to need to clutch at straws to provide any justification for it, aren't you? Martin O'Neill didn't win a match for months when he joined Leicester, and he seems to be regarded as a half-decent manager these days.

(I'm English by the way. Before you start.)

 

[Brovion]

Totally agree SoL. There is a large part of me that is ashamed to be English during football internationals. There is no denying that the 'decent' English fans (and I know there are some) aren't capable of controlling the scum and the arseholes the way that the Scots and Irish can control their own. Until we can do that we'll have to be put up with being blamed every time there's so much as a smashed glass in a town hosting an international football match

I know, I know it's not the fault of the poor English fans is it? It's all those nasty foreign police isn't it? Brutes.

 

[Tooting Gull]

There are several points here. Yes, the England national team attracts a certain element that no-one would want to associate with. There probably is some ludicrous anti-Scottish McGhee stuff, it should be ignored.

But let's kill this lie about all Scottish football fans are saints, it's total bollocks. I've been to World Cups where the 'friendly Tartan Army' (and they will get called that for the next 20 years whatever they actually do, because it's easy journalism) are all pissed out of their heads, sleeping rough, pissing in the streets, but somehow escape with a great press. It's a total joke. Same thing happened in Seville with Celtic, and they won a f***ing fair-play award! Many Scots fans are as xenophobic as their English counterparts, and let's not even start on the sectarianism. And much of what is directed towards the English is not good-humoured, either.

 

[Guinness Boy]

It's funny but when did the Scottish who used to come down every year, boo God Save the Queen and smash up Wembley suddenly become so decent? It's not the first time I've heard them praised in this way and yet I still wouldn't fancy my chances of walking in to a Glasgow pub in my three lions 10 minutes after we won the last playoff game up there.

 

[Sussex on Leith]

Depends on the Glasgow pub Guinness Boy - if it was one of the ones near Ibrox with Union flags plastered everywhere, then you'd no doubt be welcomed with open arms...perhaps not if you introduced yourself as Guinness Boy though...

Which is my way of saying that the sectarianism is still disgraceful and offensive - fortunately not such an issue when the national team are involved, since many of the more bigoted Old Firm fans won't even consider following Scotland - just Ireland or England, depending on what church they associate themselves with.

So no, it's not perfect up here - but having watched any number of England games down south, Saturday was a bit of an eye-opener.

 

[Hannibal smith]

Come on are you really trying to suggest that every Scotsman would happily exchange polite conversation & phone numbers with the opposition or just your good self? The Scottish have their share of idiots as do the English - It dosen't make one nation all thugs and one nation all peace lovers.

I also disagree that Scots / Welsh / Australian etc hatred of the English is 'Playful banter' but the English are all Xenophobic? Double Standards in my opinion.

What made me angry was the Welsh banging on about how the English could learn a thing or two from their fans. Anyone been to Cardiff recently?

 

[The Wookiee]

I don't understand your comments Leith,
4 years ago me and my good wife were in Glasgow for the playoff game we went without tickets and decided to watch the match in a pub, those so called saintly sweaties attacked me and my wife not soon after we ordered our drinks, I had 16 stiches in a head wound made by a bottle and my wife was punched fully in the face by some Jock.
Very friendly!!!!
Now I have been to many England matches home and away and have seen trouble but I have never witnessed any english fans attacking women

 

[Jambo Seagull]

SoL - what pub were you in? I was in Olivers on Rose Street. The atmosphere was electric. The simple truth is that the Tartan Army prides itself on not getting into trouble abroad, so that there is absolutely no chance of anyone confusing Scots fans with the English who, rightly or wrongly, still have an appalling reputation abroad. having said that I agree that there are likely to be as many headcases in Scotland looking for a fight with an Englishman as there are south of the border, probably more so. The travelling fans(ie Tartan Army), though, police themselves.

For what it's worth I am Scottish and proud of it but as someone who was born here (Scotland) but subsequently brought up in Brighton, I have on occasions been slagged off at Scotland matches for having an English accent. I was also in the England end (wearing Scottish colours) at wembley in Euro 96 and got no grief whatsoever from any England fan around me apart from one silly teenage girl immediately in front of me. So it's not straightforward. It is unfortunate though that the loudest song being sung at Hampden by the English fans inthe Euro 2000 qualifiers was "No surrender to the IRA". Iwould suggest that there is a significantly greater lunatic element within the travelling English fans going abroad than there is within the travelling Scots fans who travel abroad.

 

[Brovion]

....But let's kill this lie about all Scottish football fans are saints, it's total bollocks. I've been to World Cups where the 'friendly Tartan Army' (and they will get called that for the next 20 years whatever they actually do, because it's easy journalism) are all pissed out of their heads, sleeping rough, pissing in the streets, but somehow escape with a great press. It's a total joke. Same thing happened in Seville with Celtic, and they won a f***ing fair-play award! Many Scots fans are as xenophobic as their English counterparts, and let's not even start on the sectarianism. And much of what is directed towards the English is not good-humoured, either.

True, and I would never make the Jocks and Paddys out to be saints, but sleeping rough and pissing in the streets isn't quite in the same league. When England fans stop rioting and getting games abandoned I'll stop calling them scum. No chance of them learning decency and respect from the Rugby fans is there?

 

[Uncle Buck]

Brovian, I think you have to be slighly careful with what you say. I have followed England all over the place and one of the highlights of the World Cup last year was the fact that most of the numpties were not there and so there was no trouble and the locals loved us. The biggest disapointment was the first game back in Europe after the tournament (Slovakia away), when World War 3 broke out. You knew it was going to happen, by the people we saw out there, the general atmosphere and the police deciding that the English would be got for batton practise.

The English have got one game abandoned (Dublin in 95), they have misbehaved far too often, but if you feel so strongly then start following the team and marginalising the scum. That is one of the main reasons I do not give up on England away, when people like me stop going the knobs have won (although the FA's current ticketing arrangements mean that none of us seem to be able to go).

Regarding the great Tartan Army, well in 1999 they were not exactly friendly around Glasgow Queen Street. One of the few times I have been glad to be on a train and out of the place.

The Irish, well they can be as sectarian as the best of them. I believe it was in 1990 when England played a qualifier in Dublin that they decided to have a pro IRA march through Dublin on the day of the game.

 

[NMH]

There are several points here. Yes, the England national team attracts a certain element that no-one would want to associate with. There probably is some ludicrous anti-Scottish McGhee stuff, it should be ignored.

But let's kill this lie about all Scottish football fans are saints, it's total bollocks. I've been to World Cups where the 'friendly Tartan Army' (and they will get called that for the next 20 years whatever they actually do, because it's easy journalism) are all pissed out of their heads, sleeping rough, pissing in the streets, but somehow escape with a great press. It's a total joke. Same thing happened in Seville with Celtic, and they won a f***ing fair-play award! Many Scots fans are as xenophobic as their English counterparts, and let's not even start on the sectarianism. And much of what is directed towards the English is not good-humoured, either.

Exactly. A microcosm of 'good natured rivalry' with Holland disguises the fact that the Scots harbour and nurture their hatred and spite for 'special occasions'. Devils in disguise, they are such nice gentle spirits when they came to London for an international, aren't they !

 

[Jambo Seagull]

Exactly. A microcosm of 'good natured rivalry' with Holland disguises the fact that the Scots harbour and nurture their hatred and spite for 'special occasions'. Devils in disguise, they are such nice gentle spirits when they came to London for an international, aren't they !

Absolute pish! Exactly how many arrests of Scotland fans were there in Euro 96 or the Euro 2000 qualifier? I was at the game in Euro 96 and I was at Trafalgar Square before the game. There was no trouble at all. I was at the game and there was no trouble. I was in Birmingham for the Switzerland game and there was no trouble. There was some trouble at Trafalgar square after the game but I think you will find that most of the arrests were of England fans. The Scotland fans went there before the game but not after the game.

The last time there was any real trouble from Scotland fans in England was in the 70's

 

[Sussex on Leith]

Can't speak for Euro 96 myself Jambo - but I was in Scotland for the England v Germany match that year, and while I was well aware that Germany had a lot of fans that night, it didn't stop me shouting for England, and at no point did I feel like there was a kicking coming my way.

That doesn't mean that I'm doubting the experiences of the likes of BurberrySkinnedMonster - that sounds horrible by the way, and I'm saddened that it happened - but I can only go on what I've come across myself, so I'm just calling it as I see it.

By the way Jambo - I was in the Queen's Arms on Frederick Street, and needless to say the atmosphere was superb. They do a cracking pint of IPA in there as well.

 

[Jambo Seagull]

By the way Jambo - I was in the Queen's Arms on Frederick Street, and needless to say the atmosphere was superb. They do a cracking pint of IPA in there as well.

Good pub for watching fitba. Saw the first game of the 2002 World Cup there. IPA is the dogs bollox isn't it?

Not sure if you're a member but I went on my first trip down sarf with the BHAlba to Peterboro. Good bunch of guys although there was only four of us that day. I think the next defo trip is Blackpool. may be see you there. Can I take it from your moniker that you are a hibby?

 

[El Presidente]

I went to the England v Leichenstein qualifier for Euro 2004 at Old Trafford to support England. There were lots of kids with mums and dads there, but sadly chants of 'No Surrender' and 'I'd rather be a Paki than a Turk' were heard too often from the usual suspects, overwieight, red faced, shaven headed, with Burberry caps and Stone Island tops. These people are not patriots, they are scumbags and will no doubt get England kicked out of Euro 2004.

There are some bigoted dickheads amongst the Scottish and Irish fans too, but they count for a much lower proportion than amongst England fans.

 

[scotjem]

Should have followed your examples Jambo, Leith and watched Scotland. Foolishly stayed in and listend to the debacle from Withdean.

Reckon I was the only person in Glasgow on Saturday night in a foul mood. Even the Dutch were all joining in the endless choruses of 'He's bald, he's fat, he's going to get the sack - Advocaat'

 

[Citrus]

Yeah maybe, but given the choice would you be English or Scottish?

... or even Welsh!!?

 

[berkshire seagull]

I gather you are judging the minority again,well go and live in scotland then.

 

[fatbadger]

I had a great time in a pub in Stirling, surrounded by Scottish fans with Saltires painted on their faces, for England v Scotland in Euro 96. Well, it WAS great, until some twat came in and started up with a load of nasty pro-English, anti-Scottish nonsense. My mate and I - the only two English supporters in there until that point - had had no problems from the locals, but it started getting nasty cuz of that bloke. In the end, my mate and I kicked him out. Saved us a whole load of trouble.

Essentially, there are wankers on both sides (obviously). And don't even get me onto the topic of Old Firm bigots.

I do think that police mentality has a lot to do with it. Yeah, the Scottish get on well with the locals, but how many times have various police forces around the world corralled the English into a corner and not let them fraternise with the locals?

 

[NMH]

The word 'Hooligan' is pinned on the English with enthusiasm by the media all over the world. I was in France for a few games in the 98 WC, and our lads got set upon when a bloke fell off a table down by the docks (dancing, he fell off and cut his head, the bill saw claret and waded in on all and sundry).
The morrocans and arabs started chucking bottles and rocks at our lads after our second goal, and they continued into the night flinging glass and stuff to get some trouble going.

The newspapers all went for the 'Hooligans' headline, and of COURSE they associated it with the English only. I was there and I saw what they did, yet the arabs won't earn any bad name for their efforts.

The jocks were eliminated fairly quick, and they were given publicity for the colourful skirts they wore. How nice.
Naturally, while the Scots were ranting endlessly about how poorly we English acted in France and how wonderful they were - the Celtic fans went mental and got the publicity that shut that one-sided accusatory stuff down for a little while.

I see it is back !

Oh yes, the Jocks are all angels and we are all devils. It MUST be something to do with NATIONALITY and not humanity at all.
Wait - it's a RACE thing - the English are naturally violent, and the sweaties sweet and meek by nature !! Wow, there must be biological studies done.

GIVE ME A FRICKIN' BREAK !