[Politics] Scotland / England Border

[clapham_gull]

It will take years for an independent Scotland to join the EU. Added to which would they want them. They would be a poor addition.

Interestingly, the EU (and other countries with similar separatist movements) have very much changed their mind on Scotland joining.

 

[Whoislloydy]

Rebuild Hadrian's wall

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

What makes people think the EU would want the Scots back in? The 'Auld Alliance' was always a Scottish dream - the French weren't too keen on it.

WHAT makes people think the EU would NOT want Scotland back. It is a mutually supportive organisation where countries are going to get excluded because of their human rights records or things like that. It is not about whether they would be net contributors or whatever.

 

[vegster]

basic problem for Scotish independence is their trade is some ~65% with UK, 15% with the EU. so economic arguements for UK staying in EU apply to Scotland staying in the UK, regardless of brexit outcome. their primary industry oil and gas will be gone in under couple of decades and second industry finance will be drawn to UK or elsewhere (probably good for northern England). the current £13bn deficit is >7% Scottish GDP, half the total UK deficit. if they join EU they'll be expected to sign up to the Euro and adjust their finances to align.

It's a positive advantage for the Scots to be running out of oil and gas reserves, they have huge potential to produce tidal and wind electricity. That's the future, if we haven't ****ed the planet already.

 

[BensGrandad]

I dont see Scotland becoming independent any more than the SNP collapsing dramatically as the cost if Westminster was not covering it would be horrific and the people couldnt afford it.. Wasnt that one of the reasons for the previous over whelming vote.to stay in the UK.

 

[Doonhamer7]

I don’t think you get it, the no campaign at last indi ref was all based on ‘stronger together’. Seems that’s it’s only ok when stronger with England but not when applied to Europe. UKIPis going to remembered as the UK break up party. I now think we will go independent in Europe, the follow on will be NI leaving as it doesn’t sound the same as being part of England and Wales. Oh, and yes Scotland will end up with the Euro - a hard currency unlike the current soft pound.

 

[yxee]

It will be different because there's no Good Friday Agreement preventing a hard border between England and Scotland.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

WHAT makes people think the EU would NOT want Scotland back. It is a mutually supportive organisation where countries are going to get excluded because of their human rights records or things like that. It is not about whether they would be net contributors or whatever.

The EU have to be really careful now they are potentially losing a very significant budget contribution from the UK. Would you invite the country with the biggest budget shortfall in the developed world into your fold? A country that currently shares in the wealth of the UK and because of its low population, gets proportionately more per head. Scotland has free Higher Education, Police, Fire Service and NHS, all paid for out of the annual Westminster grant of £30 billion. In return, Westminster gets about £10 billion back in taxes.
Many are sceptical whether Scotland could actually go it alone. They would have to replace the budget shortfall from Westminster. Start funding all the above mentioned key services and be expected to contribute to the EU budget. They do have good natural resource but this is finite. There has to be a border and different tariff arrangements and they may be locked into the Euro as well.
The EU wouldn't be having Scotland back. At present, its the UK in the EU and they share in our wealth creation. They would be a brand new ' stand alone ' nation expected to pay their way and the EU will judge their potential ability to do this.

 

[maffew]

The Scots certainly won't be supplying us with any whiskey.

That they wont, probably no whisky either
Maybe Boris can do a deal with Ireland

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

They would have to join the Euro by being new members of the EU. That will always lose votes in another independence referendum.

God I wouldn't mind being in the euro right now, pound is all over the place, its a nightmare

 

[nicko31]

Even if Brexit somehow gets fudged over the line, get prepared for years and years of fallout.

Leave the European Union to destroy our own, maybe that should have been on the bus instead

 

[darkwolf666]

Rebuild Hadrian's wall

No, don’t do that as it’s not a border and is built in England, at times as far as 60 miles from the Scottish border. Cheeky blighters will pinch our land if you rebuild!

 

[beorhthelm]

It's a positive advantage for the Scots to be running out of oil and gas reserves, they have huge potential to produce tidal and wind electricity. That's the future, if we haven't ****ed the planet already.

its not about running out, its the policy to not use those reverses. they can adopt a green energy policy and certainly like wind with plenty already, the economic problem is this is subsidised production, while they'll lose the revenues from oil.

 

[ferring seagull]

It will take years for an independent Scotland to join the EU. Added to which would they want them. They would be a poor addition.

Access to Fishing Grounds !

 

[stewart12]

Rebuild Hadrian's wall

​

hmm that would mean giving a fair chunk of English land to Scotland

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

The EU would love Scotland to return at some point, and there would be no Good Friday Agreement issues with a normal border.

We'd be like Switzerland or Norway or Ukraine or Turkey etc. with a normal land border to the EU.

It doesn't stop Norway or Switzerland being EFTA members and having great economic but non-political relationships with the EU.

It'll take years, but let's get that Super Switzerland FTA done and let Scotland do what it wants.

 

[stewart12]

I dont see Scotland becoming independent any more than the SNP collapsing dramatically as the cost if Westminster was not covering it would be horrific and the people couldnt afford it.. Wasnt that one of the reasons for the previous over whelming vote.to stay in the UK.

is 55.3% to 44.7% an "overwhelming vote"?! that wouldn't take a big swing whatsoever to go the other way, and given attitudes towards Scotland from Westminster in the past few years, it wouldn't be a tough task to change a few peoples minds. If you want to make an argument that Scotland is being downtrodden by the English elite, and the current prime minister is BORIS JOHNSON with people like Jacob Rees-Mogg in his cabinet, it's a bit of an open goal really.

As we've seen with Brexit, a lot of people don't care about the economy when making their vote- it's boring. Thing's like perceived oppression, sovereignty etc are much more exciting and easy to motivate people to voting for

 

[mikeyjh]

The EU would love Scotland to return at some point, and there would be no Good Friday Agreement issues with a normal border.

We'd be like Switzerland or Norway or Ukraine or Turkey etc. with a normal land border to the EU.

It doesn't stop Norway or Switzerland being EFTA members and having great economic but non-political relationships with the EU.

It'll take years, but let's get that Super Switzerland FTA done and let Scotland do what it wants.

From a trade perspective there may be few issues but Norway & Switzerland are in the Schengen area so that negates the physical border to some extent. Scotland would have to have a border with England in the event they joined the EU if the UK has left. Probably. It's complicated.

The Welsh independence nutters claim that there would be no border with England in the event they left and joined the EU. They also dismiss warnings about the challenges for people living and working either side of the border as a type of 'project fear'. They are nuts.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

From a trade perspective there may be few issues but Norway & Switzerland are in the Schengen area so that negates the physical border to some extent. Scotland would have to have a border with England in the event they joined the EU if the UK has left. Probably. It's complicated.

The Welsh independence nutters claim that there would be no border with England in the event they left and joined the EU. They also dismiss warnings about the challenges for people living and working either side of the border as a type of 'project fear'. They are nuts.

Yes, Switzerland only joined Schengen in 2008, and did perfectly well before that.

A highly amusing thought is that once out of the EU we could then have a referendum to decide on joining schengen [emoji38]ol:

 

[blue-shifted]

On the likelihood of it all happening = UK leaving the EU is a 60% chance. If that then Scotland leaving UK is a 90% chance

On the EU taking Scotland = Absolutely no doubt at all they would fast track Scotland back in. Scotland has always stuck up for the EU. Part of it would be the EU rubbing our noses in it and I don't really blame them.

On Scotland's economy = If they vote for Independence, all the freebies they get at the moment will have to go. Sturgeon will only mention that after the vote

On the Scotland border = as has been said, it won't be complicated. There's no Good Friday agreement to mess it up

On English politics = The perpetual hell of endless Tory rule awaits. Wales to start looking at whether they can be arsed to stay. Powerful London Mayors decide they want to keep ever more of the wealth generated in the capital. The north collapses into ruin. In time England decides to apply to join the European Union