Scotland and Independence. Again !!

[The Rivet]

The only point(s) I was making or want to make was exactly what I said. That they voted to stay within the UK, that the UK has now voted for fundamental and far-reaching change WITH WHICH THEY AS A NATION disagreed, and so one can not blame them for considering revisiting the question.

I admire either your memory or your research in finding things that I have said before in other places, but I will not be doing anything to try and persuade the Scottish people either way if and when they have a second referendum, and how they set up any referendum in terms of the size of the majority required is up to them. The stuff about 50/50 or 60/40 majorities was as far as I could see it a statement of fact, or a passing on of expert opinion from constitutional experts.

And yes, I am and will remain strongly pro-Europe, but am not seeking to overthrow the decision that has been made, but I still very strongly disagree with it. If the vote had gone the other way, would Nigel Farage have rolled over and started singing the praises of Brussels? Of course not!

What? Can they afford the idiocy?

 

[alfredmizen]

I predict that Scotland will vote to stay in larger numbers than before.

Ironically as a result of Brexit I believe Scots will want to stay strong with the rest of us and gain the benefits of being an independent country. Why vote to leave England and Wales when that means being controlled by Brussels, Germany and France.

A lot of Scots voters I know voted.remain to head off the scenario we are now witnessing

 

[alfredmizen]

........... maybe because on June 23rd they voted in favour of being controlled by Brussels, Germany and France........, as you so prejudicedly put it.

Maybe they see it as being in partnership with rather than being controlled by.

You're on fvcking drugs if you think that is the relationship small European countries have with Germany

 

[Mental Lental]

If Scotland gets a second independence referendum and decides to LEAVE then that will call into question the reliability of referendums in general

Oh god forbid that should ever happen.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Are you surprised? I find it difficult to find NS endearing, but if Theresa May was half as good a leader, I'd be happy.
I don't blame (but aren't happy) the Scots will be ditching us, I predicted they would pre Brexit, but some scoffed at my suggestion.
Out of Europe we are going to have a difficult time, and the signs are becoming ever more apparent.
I await with interest to discover who will be the first NSC 'Leaver' to own up, and post they'd got it wrong.

The Scottish independence polls haven't moved much since the EU referendum vote. Sturgeon knows over a third of SNP voters voted for Brexit, she also knows polls suggest a clear majority of Scots 50% to 37% don't even want another vote. Not even mentioning the perilous state of the Scottish economy, price of oil etc. As you say she isn't stupid, she know's this is the last chance so I doubt she will call it unless there is a clear, ongoing (months) lead in the polls.

So I expect you will have a long wait until you get to say I told you so. If at all.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/01/davidson-now-more-popular-sturgeon-scotland/

 

[fat old seagull]

The Scottish independence polls haven't moved much since the EU referendum vote. Sturgeon knows over a third of SNP voters voted for Brexit, she also knows polls suggest a clear majority of Scots 50% to 37% don't even want another vote. Not even mentioning the perilous state of the Scottish economy, price of oil etc. As you say she isn't stupid, she know's this is the last chance so I doubt she will call it unless there is a clear, ongoing (months) lead in the polls.

So I expect you will have a long wait until you get to say I told you so. If at all.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/01/davidson-now-more-popular-sturgeon-scotland/

Well that's good news for you then, won't be long before you're able to prove me wrong....tick tock..tick tock..

I take it as read, that you won't be the first, claiming to have wrongly backed Brexit then ?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Good grief! Do people really imagine that the UK is controlled by Brussels, Germany and France?

I thought the country voted OUT, because that meant that the NHS would get more funding.

I find it difficult to credit that people believed that anyway.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

What? Can they afford the idiocy?

I presume you mean can the Scots afford the idiocy of wanting to "Remain", which i would counter with we seem to have decided on the idiocy of leaving.

Opinions seem to be somewhat divided here, to say the least.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

You're on fvcking drugs if you think that is the relationship small European countries have with Germany

I take it you disagree then,...........

....... and no, I am not on drugs. I just have the capacity to think for myself and come to my own conclusions, which happen to be different to yours.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Well that's good news for you then, won't be long before you're able to prove me wrong....tick tock..tick tock..

I take it as read, that you won't be the first, claiming to have wrongly backed Brexit then ?

I always thought the Scotland leaving scaremongering was mainly SNP political posturing amplified/exploited by the Remain campaign rather than a real concern. Even if it was a likely consequence it would not have changed the way I voted so yes you can take it as read.

 

[Simster]

The guy says that because 62% of Scottish voters voted to REMAIN in the EU Referendum that gives him a democratic mandate to pursue a second independence referendum. He conveniently ignores the fact 55% of Scottish voters in the first independence referendum voted to REMAIN in the UK.

If Scotland gets a second independence referendum and decides to LEAVE then that will call into question the reliability of referendums in general, particularly as Theresa May's only justification for Brexit - in spite of her own personal opinion on the matter - is that it was the majority will of the British people and Parliament is duty bound to see it through.

But the Brexit thing has moved the goalposts - of course they want another referendum. And what's more, if Sturgeon calls it and the leaves win, the Tory government will look like a bunch of hypocritical twats if they don't honour it, seeing as May keeps foolishly banging the "Brexit means Brexit" drum.

As far as I'm concerned, we are seeing the dangers of the politics of the plebiscite unfolding in front of our eyes.

 

[John Byrnes Mullet]

The sooner they fook off and manage themselves into bankruptcy the better.

 

[fat old seagull]

The sooner they fook off and manage themselves into bankruptcy the better.

Whilst we of course are doing so splendidly, and there are £3 to the $!
On the upside, it's great for seaside resorts. Only the elite will be able to travel abroad, so get the bucket and spade out!

 

[Rogero]

I think we should have a referendum to see if we want to keep the Scots. I think they would be voted out. Now the oil is worth less they would really struggle.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Whilst we of course are doing so splendidly, and there are £3 to the $!
On the upside, it's great for seaside resorts. Only the elite will be able to travel abroad, so get the bucket and spade out!

We would be doing a little better were it not for the subsidies we give to Scotland.

 

[FatSuperman]

Interesting debate, I actually thought that it was a once in a generation referendum and therefore not relevant what has changed. You could run a referendum on Scottish independence, or on BREXIT every day and you'd get different results. I have no idea how manipulated we were on the referendum but I certainly feel I had nowhere near enough information to make a decision, so most people are likely to have voted on gut feel.

I appreciate this is anecdotal and irrelevant, but for my friends that voted to leave, the consensus is that 'the grass is probably greener on the other side'. I'm not freaking out about the pound, or about marmite, or about what's happening in the future. I'm going to make the best of the situation that we find ourselves in. It's going to be very different in a year, in 5, 10 years and none of us know if we will be better off on average. Frankly we'll never know whether this was the right decision or not, our fate is still going to be tied closely to Europe, given the amount of trade we will always have with each other.

In situations like this, where I really have no idea of the long term picture, I just try and ensure that every move I make is in the right direction, and leaves me in a better position than before - not necessarily the best move I could have made, but always positive, always forward.

I play chess like that too.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I wonder how many Remainers would have changed their vote if the position was reversed and there was a supposed risk of Scotland leaving the UK if we stayed in the EU ..

Btw a consistent, credible position for a Scottish Nationalist should surely be leave the UK and the EU!

 

[NooBHA]

Being Scottish and most of my family still living there I wanted Scottish independence. Being Independent does not mean separate for me. So I lost in that vote

I voted to remain in the EU because I want the flexibility to be able to move wherever I want in the EU any time I want and I think the trade agreements between EU very important. The VAT issues are the most important up and coming issue. So I lost that vote as well

Not doing so good so far for me


However, I don't want another vote on whether to leave the EU or not because that's what was voted for by the people and that is Democracy and I really do think that Article 50 should have been triggered within 90 days of the VOTE because uncertainty is causing a lot of the economic problems on the horizon at the moment.

Neither do I want another Scottish Referendum at the moment because again Democracy has to stand in Scotland as well and nothing has actually changed. Scotland for now is still part of the EU and the Scottish people do not have a right to demand another VOTE on independence. Not for now anyhow.

That takes me on to the leaders of the UK and Scotland respectively. Teresa May actually does not know what she wants to do. She is afraid to move on the Brexit issue but she is afraid not to because the UK populous voted to leave.

Contrast that with Nicola Sturgeon. She knows what she wants. She passionately believes in what she is fighting for and that sends the right signals to the people. I don't actually think anyone can knock Nicola Sturgeon on her convictions. You might not agree with them but they are ''steadfast'' and I for one wish that a lot more politicians were like her.

So in short for me. Theresa May needs to get her finger out and get Brexit moving, even although I am totally against the idea - And Nicola Sturgeon should lay off the Scottish independence drum for now until she has some evidence that Scotland leaving the EU is hurting it's population

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The sooner they fook off and manage themselves into bankruptcy the better.

I can only guess which way you voted but is vaguely interesting that many Brexiteers appear to have a visceral dislike of Scotland.

 

[Bozza]

I just try and ensure that every move I make is in the right direction, and leaves me in a better position than before - not necessarily the best move I could have made, but always positive, always forward.

I play chess like that too.

And make love?