Scotland and Independence. Again !!

[Biscuit Barrel]

If Scotland leaves and the proposed constituency boundary changes go ahead, Labour is pretty much finished in England?

Every cloud.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

What I want to know is why my mum (Scottish) and my brother born in Scotland and indeed myself (half Scottish) do not get to vote on Scottish independence. Expats got to vote in the EU referendum, presumably because the people making the rules thought they would vote Remain. In the same way the people making the rules for the Scottish vote seem to be trying to rig the electorate in favour of independance. Why are Scottish people, with Scottish parents who were born and raised in Scotland, but who now happen to be living in England, being denied a vote!? I think this is wrong.

 

[Pondicherry]

1. The Scots rejected Independence just two years ago
2. The UK voted to leave the EU. There was no separate question asking the Scots if they wanted to stay in so to claim the Scots voted to stay is not true.
3. The Westminster parliament would need to approve another referendum - which is unlikely - or Scots hold their own referendum, vote to leave and then its war (which we would win (if we got the subs))

 

[Yoda]

Every cloud.

So you're prepared to effectively say goodbye to democracy? After all, if that happens, we'll only ever know a Troy government.

All hail Empress May!!!!

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

No one could really begrudge them their independence if they vote for it.

Que sera sera.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Why not go now ?

Er, because it's not yet certain a referendum will happen. Also, if Fox & The Fruitcakes get their just desserts free movement might survive in England - I doubt it though - and new passports won't be necessary.

 

[Giraffe]

I predict that Scotland will vote to stay in larger numbers than before.

Ironically as a result of Brexit I believe Scots will want to stay strong with the rest of us and gain the benefits of being an independent country. Why vote to leave England and Wales when that means being controlled by Brussels, Germany and France.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The guy says that because 62% of Scottish voters voted to REMAIN in the EU Referendum that gives him a democratic mandate to pursue a second independence referendum. He conveniently ignores the fact 55% of Scottish voters in the first independence referendum voted to REMAIN in the UK.

If Scotland gets a second independence referendum and decides to LEAVE then that will call into question the reliability of referendums in general, particularly as Theresa May's only justification for Brexit - in spite of her own personal opinion on the matter - is that it was the majority will of the British people and Parliament is duty bound to see it through.

Yes they voted to stay within The UK.
Then the UK voted for fundamental and far reaching change.
Given that the Scots part of the vote went strongly the other way to the UK as a whole, can you blame them for thinking about another referendum.
If I were a Scot and had voted to stay in the Union first time round, I would probably have changed my mind now.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I predict that Scotland will vote to stay in larger numbers than before.

Ironically as a result of Brexit I believe Scots will want to stay strong with the rest of us and gain the benefits of being an independent country. Why vote to leave England and Wales when that means being controlled by Brussels, Germany and France.

........... maybe because on June 23rd they voted in favour of being controlled by Brussels, Germany and France........, as you so prejudicedly put it.

Maybe they see it as being in partnership with rather than being controlled by.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I await with interest to discover who will be the first NSC 'Leaver' to own up, and post they'd got it wrong.

2 years minimum.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I predict that Scotland will vote to stay in larger numbers than before.

Ironically as a result of Brexit I believe Scots will want to stay strong with the rest of us and gain the benefits of being an independent country. Why vote to leave England and Wales when that means being controlled by Brussels, Germany and France.

There's not really any comparison between the degrees of control operated within the EU and the UK is there? Countries within the UK don't have their own armies and heads of state, their tax-raising powers are limited, they can't simply decide to leave the union and they certainly can't declare war on anyone else. Countries within the EU can do all those things. The degree of control exercised by the EU is generally overstated by those who want to leave it, as is witnessed by your remark regarding French controls over Scotland. Anything the French control in the UK is the result of us having flogged it to them.

I once worked with the daughter of the Lithuanian Ambassador. She lived in South Kensington. Her father's job was brilliant because Lithuania didn't actually have an embassy in those Soviet days. It certainly has an embassy now, as a free country within the European Union. The same sequence of events would happen to Scotland. It would gain considerable extra freedom.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

........... maybe because on June 23rd they voted in favour of being controlled by Brussels, Germany and France........, as you so prejudicedly put it.

Maybe they see it as being in partnership with rather than being controlled by.

Why all this obeisance towards Scotland? Why not prioritise the majority in this country? If English results only were taken into consideration, the number voting leave would be a far more emphatic 53.4% against 46.6% wishing to stay. Almost 2 million more English voted to leave than stay. Perhaps we don't like being dictated to by our wee friends from up north?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Why all this obeisance towards Scotland? Why not prioritise the majority in this country? If English results only were taken into consideration, the number voting leave would be a far more emphatic 53.4% against 46.6% wishing to stay. Almost 2 million more English voted to leave than stay. Perhaps we don't like being dictated to by our wee friends from up north?

I don't see that I was either supporting or condemning the idea of Scottish independence. I live about as far away as it is possible to live in this country from Scotland and have no Scottish antecedents as far as I am aware.

But they are a separate country and have every right as far as I can see to seek independence. might forcing them to stay in, as you suggest, almost be akin to an abusive marriage?

 

[The Rivet]

Why all this obeisance towards Scotland? Why not prioritise the majority in this country? If English results only were taken into consideration, the number voting leave would be a far more emphatic 53.4% against 46.6% wishing to stay. Almost 2 million more English voted to leave than stay. Perhaps we don't like being dictated to by our wee friends from up north?

That is about right.
Their country is insignificant. No real economic contribution to the UK that is meaningful at all. Supplicants and reliant on the English tax paying power.
They are laughable but they have too loud a voice.

 

[portlock seagull]

Still remember the day after the last referendum a text doing doing the rounds:
"Oi, Scotland! You will leave the Union when England tells you to!!"

 

[portlock seagull]

I have to say I don't want Scotland to leave because it weakens our mainland security in so many ways. That said I'm sick and tired of their bleating so would like them to feck off at the same time. It's like the remoaners and Brexit...you lost, get over it and we move on with the job in hand. Instead it's like having that Harry Enfield character permanently sat next to you repeatedly saying "I told you so / you don't wanna do it like that..."

In football parlance they should just sit down/shut up.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

But they are a separate country and have every right as far as I can see to seek independence. might forcing them to stay in, as you suggest, almost be akin to an abusive marriage?

Totally agree that they have the right for self determination. Reminds me of the situation where most of England wanted out of the EU. We were allowed to vote and thankfully are in the process of divorce from our abusive spouse.

However in Scotland's case, they voted about that recently and now that Nicola Sturgeon sees an angle, she thinks she can stick her oar in again and have another bite at the cherry even though they lost the first time. You seem to think that it's fine and dandy for the Scots to choose their own way and certainly don't want to advise that they leave the shelter of the larger benefactor, the UK. Yet when we vote to leave the EU, we have made a terrible terrible mistake and we need to understand that in your own words~

'And it's not going to be easy. Wake up and smell the Marmite - sorry, coffee.'

I presume that you and other remainers will be stridently warning the Scots about the possible economic Armageddon if they were to leave and also that you wouldn't accept a possible leave vote unless the vote was achieved with say a 60% to 40% winning margin?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

........... maybe because on June 23rd they voted in favour of being controlled by Brussels, Germany and France........, as you so prejudicedly put it.

Maybe they see it as being in partnership with rather than being controlled by.

Good grief! Do people really imagine that the UK is controlled by Brussels, Germany and France?

I thought the country voted OUT, because that meant that the NHS would get more funding.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Totally agree that they have the right for self determination. Reminds me of the situation where most of England wanted out of the EU. We were allowed to vote and thankfully are in the process of divorce from our abusive spouse.

However in Scotland's case, they voted about that recently and now that Nicola Sturgeon sees an angle, she thinks she can stick her oar in again and have another bite at the cherry even though they lost the first time. You seem to think that it's fine and dandy for the Scots to choose their own way and certainly don't want to advise that they leave the shelter of the larger benefactor, the UK. Yet when we vote to leave the EU, we have made a terrible terrible mistake and we need to understand that in your own words~

'And it's not going to be easy. Wake up and smell the Marmite - sorry, coffee.'

I presume that you and other remainers will be stridently warning the Scots about the possible economic Armageddon if they were to leave and also that you wouldn't accept a possible leave vote unless the vote was achieved with say a 60% to 40% winning margin?

The only point(s) I was making or want to make was exactly what I said. That they voted to stay within the UK, that the UK has now voted for fundamental and far-reaching change WITH WHICH THEY AS A NATION disagreed, and so one can not blame them for considering revisiting the question.

I admire either your memory or your research in finding things that I have said before in other places, but I will not be doing anything to try and persuade the Scottish people either way if and when they have a second referendum, and how they set up any referendum in terms of the size of the majority required is up to them. The stuff about 50/50 or 60/40 majorities was as far as I could see it a statement of fact, or a passing on of expert opinion from constitutional experts.

And yes, I am and will remain strongly pro-Europe, but am not seeking to overthrow the decision that has been made, but I still very strongly disagree with it. If the vote had gone the other way, would Nigel Farage have rolled over and started singing the praises of Brussels? Of course not!

 

[The Rivet]

Good grief! Do people really imagine that the UK is controlled by Brussels, Germany and France?

I thought the country voted OUT, because that meant that the NHS would get more funding.

Cheap, very cheap.