[News] School strikes

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

My wife took our 2 kids to pizza express for lunch and there were a few people with strike placards with kids lunching there as well. Obvs having a break from a hard day striking.
Pleased Pizza Express got more lunch traffic, but the kids should have been using their Squid cards instead.

What is your point ? What do you expect people to do that are on strike? You are a very strange person.

 

[jessiejames]

Do most employed people get told it is a vocation so take whatever paid.

Im told my job is a vocation, its paid ok, Stressful

And if you have people who can't read or count the tins and packets you have empty shelves.

Goes to show that every job is important, we all would like more money, but its not as easy as just handing out more pay. Do we have everyone go out on strike for a couple of days? A national strike maybe.

 

[Curious Orange]

Is what's informing your view:
-- a critical rejection of the notion of 'the real' or reality (which is a feature of many philosophical positions)
-- a rejection of the long-established distinction between 'real' and 'nominal' in economics
-- something else?
I'd also be grateful for a brief explanation.

Now I'm really not sure what you are talking about, and as it has been a long time since I've studied economics I'm definitely not up on the current lingo.

But to put it simply:
* If I have a pay rise and prices stay the same, I have had a pay rise and more spending power. I have not had a pay cut.
* If I have a pay rise and prices rise at the same rate, I have had a pay rise and my spending power has not altered.
* If I have a pay rise and prices rise at a higher rate, I have had a pay rise and my spending power is less. I have not had a pay cut.
* If I have a pay cut, my pay has been cut.

I could list other scenarios but it'd get tedious. There is no philosophy to anything I have said it is just what happens.

As for what I think teachers should be paid, certainly above national average wage, which I note they already are, but probably a bit more than the current level given the complexity of the job they do.

 

[amexer]

Lets hope we can get the economy going so those in private section can raise the taxes to pay for increases in public section

 

[Berty23]

Lets hope we can get the economy going so those in private section can raise the taxes to pay for increases in public section

Well productivity will not improve if we get a worse educated population in poorer health will it. Do you see how this works?

Amusing idea that teachers should be fined for striking. They are. They lose money for that day.

 

[keaton]

Well productivity will not improve if we get a worse educated population in poorer health will it. Do you see how this works?

Amusing idea that teachers should be fined for striking. They are. They lose money for that day.

You can prove anything with facts

 

[The Clamp]

Now I'm really not sure what you are talking about, and as it has been a long time since I've studied economics I'm definitely not up on the current lingo.

But to put it simply:
* If I have a pay rise and prices stay the same, I have had a pay rise and more spending power. I have not had a pay cut.
* If I have a pay rise and prices rise at the same rate, I have had a pay rise and my spending power has not altered.
* If I have a pay rise and prices rise at a higher rate, I have had a pay rise and my spending power is less. I have not had a pay cut.
* If I have a pay cut, my pay has been cut.

I could list other scenarios but it'd get tedious. There is no philosophy to anything I have said it is just what happens.

As for what I think teachers should be paid, certainly above national average wage, which I note they already are, but probably a bit more than the current level given the complexity of the job they do.

So basically, you’re simply refusing to acknowledge that real term pay cuts exist.


A most strange viewpoint.

 

[Curious Orange]

So basically, you’re simply refusing to acknowledge that real term pay cuts exist.


A most strange viewpoint.

Not really. It is as real as saying that a pay cut at the same time as there is a greater drop in prices is a real terms pay increase.

 

[jonny.rainbow]

Now I'm really not sure what you are talking about, and as it has been a long time since I've studied economics I'm definitely not up on the current lingo.

But to put it simply:
* If I have a pay rise and prices stay the same, I have had a pay rise and more spending power. I have not had a pay cut.
* If I have a pay rise and prices rise at the same rate, I have had a pay rise and my spending power has not altered.
* If I have a pay rise and prices rise at a higher rate, I have had a pay rise and my spending power is less. I have not had a pay cut.
* If I have a pay cut, my pay has been cut.

I could list other scenarios but it'd get tedious. There is no philosophy to anything I have said it is just what happens.

As for what I think teachers should be paid, certainly above national average wage, which I note they already are, but probably a bit more than the current level given the complexity of the job they do.

Rishi, Jeremy, Andrew and Gillian’s teacher creates a series circuit for them. He gives them some components and says they can use them to develop the circuit further.

Andrew decides they need to put five more lamps into the circuit. Jeremy notices that the lamps have all dimmed and gives Gillian one more battery cell to add a bit more power to the circuit. As the light has got slightly brighter, Rishi decides they can keep on adding more and more lamps into the circuit as the extra battery cell made the circuit less dim.

Unfortunately, the rate the lamps are increasing by very quickly exceeds what the battery cells can cope with and the lamps all go out.

“That’s not exactly what I was expecting,” says their onlooking teacher, “but you have created an excellent model demonstrating what a power cut in a circuit looks like!”

“But it’s not a cut!” exclaim the children. “There is more battery power in this circuit than ever before!”

 

[Weststander]

Mrs V has been a Primary school teacher for some 30 years in all, teaching whole class, specialist 1-1 reading interventions and at different times as a supply teacher. At her last post (4 years ago) as a whole class teacher she was earning £28k pa and was one of the higher earners in the school, a new head came in and had to make cuts due to the school budget being cut. Mrs V was effectively constructively dismissed due to the stress and anxiety caused by extra duties,observations and procedures imposed on her in order to get a NQT in and saving a few £s...

Remember that when Sunak or any of the other Tory ministers state they want a " High Skill/ High Wage Economy " they are lying. Their paymasters are investing huge amounts in the Tory party in order to get an economy that uses low wage drones in order to facilitate higher profits. they want a workforce educated to a level that means they are a net contributor to the economy but not educated enough to be able to see how they are being used.

With your inside track, are some heads/governors able to circumvent national pay scales and pay that derisory £28k for 30 years experience? The BBC stated ONS figures that the median pay for a classroom teacher is £39,500. Which accords with the pay level of M6 on the NASUWT website.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Not really. It is as real as saying that a pay cut at the same time as there is a greater drop in prices is a real terms pay increase.

What is it you’re trying to say? I have followed your posts and you seem to have lost focus and got bogged down with the semantics of a phrase which we all seem to know the meaning of

 

[Curious Orange]

What is it you’re trying to say? I have followed your posts and you seem to have lost focus and got bogged down with the semantics of a phrase which we all seem to know the meaning of

We all know the meaning, I'm just pointing out it is bollocks.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

1m seconds = 11.6 days

1bn seconds = 31.7 years

6bn seconds = 190 years

37bn seconds = 1,173 years

£6bn was lost in the economy on a single day of Liz Truss. During COVID, this government spent £37bn on Track and Trace. And a FURTHER £37bn on PPE.

But obviously the reason this country is in its current state is because of teachers, nurses, train drivers, etc wanting a pay increase to match their living costs.

 

[The Clamp]

Not really. It is as real as saying that a pay cut at the same time as there is a greater drop in prices is a real terms pay increase.


Yes, I agree. Sort of. In theory one could argue both are real. Except the cost of indicator items and services very rarely comes down significantly.

We won’t be paying 49p for a pint of milk ever again.
Houses won’t cost 90k again
Rail and bus fares won’t come down permanently.
Petrol and fuel only goes up over a long enough timeline.
Phone contracts don’t come down, market wide.

So yeah, I think you’re right in theory but not in real world terms. Which is ultimately, I think, the crux of it all, would you agree?

 

[portlock seagull]

But if you’re part of a union which voted to strike then I feel you should follow that decision even if you don’t agree; that’s democratic and also what being in a union is about.

That’s a fair point. Ironically I know people who can’t afford the days wage docked despite being pro strike for greater good. It’s all a bit of a gamble really isn’t it.

 

[wellquickwoody]

The union do not cherry pick when to support/advise their members over indiidual and personal issues

From mine and others experience, oh yes they bloody do. A club for bully’s and the bullied.

 

[vegster]

With your inside track, are some heads/governors able to circumvent national pay scales and pay that derisory £28k for 30 years experience? The BBC stated ONS figures that the median pay for a classroom teacher is £39,500. Which accords with the pay level of M6 on the NASUWT website.

View attachment 156533View attachment 156534

I think in order to get £36k pa you had to be taking on either the role of subject teacher or responsibility for a year group. Mrs V's school was a small single form entry school. She was the highest earner in just a teaching role, the Head and Deputy Head ( who also taught) and the SENCO earned the highest wages and were " fireproof " ...there was an undercurrent of fear regarding the wage structure and lots of stress and worries behind the scenes, when the Head targeted my Mrs there was a degree of relief around the remaining staff although with an acceptance that in 18 months /2 years the next highest earner would be in the firing line.

Effectively, the school did not have the budget for experienced teachers and looked to bring in NQT's ( Newly Qualified Teachers) as they were cheaper.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

From mine and others experience, oh yes they bloody do. A club for bully’s and the bullied.

This is quite a strong statement. I know people who are in teachers and transport unions and this isn’t something they’ve made me aware of.

Out of interest what happened to you?

 

[Weststander]

I think in order to get £36k pa you had to be taking on either the role of subject teacher or responsibility for a year group. Mrs V's school was a small single form entry school. She was the highest earner in just a teaching role, the Head and Deputy Head ( who also taught) and the SENCO earned the highest wages and were " fireproof " ...there was an undercurrent of fear regarding the wage structure and lots of stress and worries behind the scenes, when the Head targeted my Mrs there was a degree of relief around the remaining staff although with an acceptance that in 18 months /2 years the next highest earner would be in the firing line.

Effectively, the school did not have the budget for experienced teachers and looked to bring in NQT's ( Newly Qualified Teachers) as they were cheaper.

Sorry to hear that. Bullying and slyness by bosses in any sector is disgusting. I hope Mrs.V pursued a case. The events you describe are an archetypal constructive dismissal.

 

[Curious Orange]

So yeah, I think you’re right in theory but not in real world terms. Which is ultimately, I think, the crux of it all, would you agree?

I think we broadly agree. Not being given a pay increase, or one that is less than inflation, can undoubtedly lead to having less spending power, which can definitely have real world consequences.

I do object to the phrase 'real terms pay cut' though because, firstly it isn't actually true, and secondly the way it is phrased makes it sound like a deliberately vindictive act and ignores the possibility that the financial constraints on the employer might not allow them to offer more of a pay rise (or indeed any).

Oh, and I apologise to @Herr Tubthumper for the bluntness of my previous response.