Scary and depressing stuff from the head of MI5

[jackanada]

The odds of it happening to you are significantly less than you getting struck by lightning

Don't fear terrorism, it's what the terrorists want. Additionally, the governments exploit this fear and take away our freedoms.

Perfectly reasonable point of view there Mustafa.

Odd how much some people are prepared to have their liberties infringed to prevent terrorism, but as soon as someone wishes to reduce deaths by, ooh what to go for, introducing 20mph speed limits they go mental.

 

[beorhthelm]

No it isn't his family were concerned about it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...-family-feared-he-might-convert-to-Islam.html

i read the piece at the time, its one letter from a concerned relative, and reference that he had some affection for some local tradition, but theres nothing to suggest he considering the religion. its comparable to me going to China, adopted the local dress said a couple of things nice about the locals and my brother-in-law worrying im about to join the communist party. interest in a culture does not mean adopting it.

 

[Ferring Marine]

Are you for real? "the governments exploit this fear and take away our freedoms", do you not think the terrorism that is happening is causing the fear, i don't think the governments need to ramp it up at the moment do you?

If the people here had the "freedom" to say what they want instead of being branded, locked up, then perhaps the problem largely caused by governments around Europe not listening to peoples "fears", would not be escalating.

Soulman speaks with truth
What we need to do is send ALL foreign settlers within the last FIVE year back to Romania or whatever, all Jocks back to their homeland immediately because they've mde their feelings plain.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Yes he wrote that in 1899 - and 40 odd years later he approved the first mosque in London - he must have changed his mind.

Like many people at that time he was interested and saw some things (especially militarily) he liked but as he was probably an atheists he never seriously considered it.

 

[Soulman]

Anyway, bed now, Charlton beckons, as Winston might say "We shall fight them in the Valley, we shall never surrender".
Nice debating/differences of opinion tonight and without the expletives that some bring.

 

[Ferring Marine]

This exactly. Meanwhile the known ones in this country are free to peddle their extremist views whilst getting the "benefits" of being protected.

Quite frankly. ALL terrorists should be publicly captured, ejaculated, hung drawn and quartered, castrated, singed, made to listen to a WHOLE album of a prominent x factor boy band of the time, and sunk in quick lime for the rest of their lives.
That would make the rag heads think again !
UP THE ALBION !!

 

[Soulman]

Soulman speaks with truth
What we need to do is send ALL foreign settlers within the last FIVE year back to Romania or whatever, all Jocks back to their homeland immediately because they've mde their feelings plain.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

i read the piece at the time, its one letter from a concerned relative, and reference that he had some affection for some local tradition, but theres nothing to suggest he considering the religion. its comparable to me going to China, adopted the local dress said a couple of things nice about the locals and my brother-in-law worrying im about to join the communist party. interest in a culture does not mean adopting it.

Many people at the time were interested in Islam, having read the piece and other bits about Churchill and seeing his home and where he worked I think he was interested enough to research it and I have no doubt he changed his view a bit from his writing in 1899 or he wouldn't have approved of the mosque he supported in later life.

Lawrence was enchanted by the arabs and Islam and quite a few military people have adopted cultures having lived in the countries and with the people.

Thats not to say I think Churchill would have become a muslim as I think he was an atheist. I get the impression you are very set in your ways and very conservative in mind Beorhthelm - not everyone is the same as you

 

[atfc village]

Good Friday Agreement ,50 Yrs from now The Ramadan Agreement will follow along with the BS we don't deal with terrorist.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Amazing really. We have witnessed atrocities and killing over the last few days and as per the threads turn around to how bad we are/were.....even NI is dragged in again, our colonisation of countries from 50 years ago.
Yep, i'm wavering, the slaughters in France yesterday were down to the Crusades, the NI Protestants and Catholics, our colonisation of countries etc.

Although undoubtedly the 'west's' foreign policies in Iraq and Paki/afgan -istan contributed to the radicalisation of these scumbags. These events do not happen in isolation as much as we'd like to have no blame attached to our great nation, it doesnt take a genius to draw the dots together, just look at a timeline of 'their' history.

 

[beorhthelm]

Thats not to say I think Churchill would have become a muslim as I think he was an atheist.

but you said...

You do know that Churchill was close to becoming an Islamist don't you, he was quite taken with the religion even dressing in Islamic robes - thankfully he didn't like some of the darker aspects of the religion

why perpetuate the myth if you dont even believe it?

 

[Chicken Runner61]

but you said...



why perpetuate the myth if you dont even believe it?

Its not a myth is it - his own family were concerned enough to write to him about it the proof is there that he was interested in it. The fact it doesn't fit in with what your view of how history was doesn't make you right.

What is it that makes you think Churchill wouldn't have changed his mind about Islam and wanted to make ties with its people just as Hitler had? Churchill was a brilliant diplomat and reader of foreign affairs, he understood how to make allies and he also knew his enemies strengths and weaknesses. It makes perfect sense that he was drawn to aspects of it and there is no myth to it

 

[beorhthelm]

Its not a myth is it - his own family were concerned enough to write to him about it the proof is there that he was interested in it. The fact it doesn't fit in with what your view of how history was doesn't make you right.

What is it that makes you think Churchill wouldn't have changed his mind about Islam and wanted to make ties with its people just as Hitler had? Churchill was a brilliant diplomat and reader of foreign affairs, he understood how to make allies and he also knew his enemies strengths and weaknesses. It makes perfect sense that he was drawn to aspects of it and there is no myth to it

you seem to be reading far more into what i've said, and or for that matter the article. the sensationalist title of the article didnt stand up to the following writing - a family members concern doesnt equate to someone remotely likely to convert. i havent at any point argured that he wasnt interested in islam culture, changed his mind (or indeed needed to change, it seems he saw contrasting aspects) or didnt want to enage with the islamic world positively when it suited us. he admired some aspects, and wrote as much. making this in to some near religious conversion is creating a myth (it probably says more about the sister-in-laws prejudices than anything else).

 

[Chicken Runner61]

you seem to be reading far more into what i've said, and or for that matter the article. the sensationalist title of the article didnt stand up to the following writing - a family members concern doesnt equate to someone remotely likely to convert. i havent at any point argured that he wasnt interested in islam culture, changed his mind (or indeed needed to change, it seems he saw contrasting aspects) or didnt want to enage with the islamic world positively when it suited us. he admired some aspects, and wrote as much. making this in to some near religious conversion is creating a myth (it probably says more about the sister-in-laws prejudices than anything else).

You have far more supposition and myth in your post above than I have with a suggesting flirting with Islam based on factual letter from his brothers wife asking him not to convert, his wearing of Islamic robes and his donation to a London mosque especially considering his involvement with freemasonry and orders of druids!

You even have suggested his sister in law has prejudices deduced from one small section of her letter - but its a myth that Churchill flirted will Islam !

 

[wellquickwoody]

Perfectly reasonable point of view there Mustafa.

Odd how much some people are prepared to have their liberties infringed to prevent terrorism, but as soon as someone wishes to reduce deaths by, ooh what to go for, introducing 20mph speed limits they go mental.

Really not that odd when you actually think about it.

 

[jackanada]

Really not that odd when you actually think about it.

Well yes people are often irrational and stupid.
I'd say the more you think about it the odder it is.