[Albion] Saudi regime buying Dan Ashworth: the undelying cause for our collapse in form?

[Guinness Boy]

Here we go, so really this is just another political rant via football ?

It's not political to wish that football clubs over here were run a little more like in Germany and not by characters like Abramovich and oppressive Middle Eastern nation states? Unless you like those sorts of owners of course?

Back on topic, no it's not MUCH down to Ashworth but the atmosphere and upheaval around the club can't really have helped people's confidence, just at the time as THPP rightly points out, we're defensively weak.

I'm on record on here of stating that Ashworth's arrival was, in my opinion, a contributing factor in the Hughton deterioration, in as much as the senior management dynamic would have instantly changed. But once the players lost confidence and CH tried to fix it with ever duller tactics it was more down to the pair of them. This is the same. He's caused issues in the leadership group that must have had a day to day effect on the atmosphere, but our on field problems are now of our own making.

 

[essbee1]

Can we start by moving the away fans to a sh*t part of the ground, in keeping with most other PL clubs do to us as away fans.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Nope. Not having it at all. I know they are disappointed with his leaving, and obviously if he is as good at his job as his reputation suggests then it will have an effect on us. But that effect will be felt later - in regards to recruitment, contract negotiations, etc.

He’s not the manager. He’s not a coach. He’s not a player. Hanging the current run of dreadful form on his leaving, is a lazy cop out.

Why not having it at all? .

[MENTION=528]attila[/MENTION] has just posted a hypothesis, unless he, or you or I are at Lancing regularly and see all the dynamics that go on, then it's a fair enough point to make if looking for why we've suddenly turned the year looking so fragile. I don't think Ashworth was just effectively a scout if the only thing he did was recruitment. I suspect his role throughout the club was a lot more involved.

For all we know Ashworth and Potter worked really closely as sounding blocks, opinions, whatever. Perhaps Ashworth was a confidente to some of the players who could share with him what they might not do with the management. He might have regularly met GP and his coaching staff to review their plans for the week, tactical decisons, selections etc. I have no idea, BUT, 2 major things happened in January to coincide with our downturn; Burn and Ashworth went.

I don't disagree that hanging the entire downturn on Ashworth leaving is not likely, Burn was clearly a bigger impact, however to suggest it hasn't impacted and it will only be felt later - not sure you can know that.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

It's not controversial to say that well settled, well structured clubs are the ones that do well and we've just become less structured and well settled.

I also think Ashworth leaving has had an affect. Not directly, but you can imagine there are some with their eyes now on a move up north.

Potter as the OP suggested is doing his best to hold up a fig leaf to pretend the club is operating normally. The cracks started to appear with Duffy and Sanchez and I expect to see more if we don't beat Norwich

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's funny. I read Attila's post an nodded in agreement. Then I read Hans Kray and others, and nodded in agreement again.

The fact is we humans see patterns that don't exist. Our pattern 'recognition' facilities are designed to help us see into the future.

Likewise we use our confirmation bias to explain events, 'proving' whatever prejuduces we favour.

The reality is we have a choice here: back the club or stop watching. I don't go to football to boo Tony Bloom or Potter. Or the players. We are what we are. We are not run by Archer or the Saudis.

Bloom may sack Potter at the end of the season. The likes of [MENTION=17322]Lenny Rider[/MENTION] consider this very unlikely. So be it. We regroup next season.

Football is a bit of an escape from the real world, an entertainment, not an embodiment of the march of socialism, even if sometimes we may (or man not) feel it would be nice to be, different, somehow,

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Why not having it at all? .

[MENTION=528]attila[/MENTION] has just posted a hypothesis,.

Because I’m ‘not having’ his hypothesis.

Mine is that we have an average group of footballers (for this rarified level), who had been over performing, on the crest of a wave of confidence. That confidence looks currently shot, and they are slightly underperforming - which at this level means certain failure.

Potter, Billy, Bruno and the players themselves, need to regroup , eke out a respectable result and start to rebuild what they had (just a few short weeks ago)

 

[Lower West Stander]

I just think we are too nice...

We need toughen up both on the pitch and off it... We are far too accommodating and friendly....

Yes - perhaps show the same attitude they do to us fans?

 

[Swansman]

Funny, there was a thread about DA being the reason for the bad form in CHs last season.

I think there is little to no relation. Selling BDB had more impact. Having a bunch of players with 3-15 months left on their contract, some of them probably thinking they will move in the summer and wont have to bother much is also not a good thing for the club and things must be done to prevent similar situations in the future... cant have half a squad with contracts nearing the end.

 

[m@goo]

...I suspect (I may be wrong) that the board thought we were a bit different, creating something not entirely driven by pound signs, given the large remuneration packages already in place, and that this has sent shockwaves through the club of a kind that players demanding transfers would never do. Results at the moment seem entirely predictable, and Potter sounds, dare I say it, a little bit defeated by it all...

I'd be very surprised if the board genuinely felt that no one could be bought with the right money. Dan Ashworth literally came to us because of "the right money". These people live in the money world and know it's power. No one can't be bought for the right price. Bloom/Potter have said this themselves.

Yes it's obviously been a bit of a gut punch but like all gut punches we will get our breath back and recover. Based on everything that's happened in the past I have enough belief in the board for us to come through it and rise once again.

 

[Mackenzie]

Us Brighton fans are angry we’ve been messed around,
Since that ******** Ashworth left the Falmer ground,
We’re stuck in a pyramid we really hate,
Competing with oligarchs and foreign states.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Because I’m ‘not having’ his hypothesis.

Mine is that we have an average group of footballers (for this rarified) level, who had been over performing, on the crest of a wave of confidence. That confidence looks currently shot, and they are slightly underperforming - which at this level means certain failure.

Potter, Billy, Bruno and the players themselves, need to regroup , eke out a respectable result and start to rebuild what they had (just a few short weeks ago)

Yes they do, but Ashworth may well have been part of these regroupings previously, an important cog in the overall machine, a contribution to players believing in what they're doing. How can we know? Potter, Billy, Bruno may have been sitting down with Ashworth each week to discuss their plans for the coming / week and games. Ashworth may have been a calming presence, a trusted advisor outside the day to day running, like companies who have non-executive directors, or school governors, slightly detached who can suggest things that the team running the day today's haven't thought of or missed. I don't know, but what I do know is that he is seen as important enough for Newcastle to tempt him away.

I also agree with you that confidence is a huge thing in football, but many things can impact confidence. Ashworth may well have been part of a culture of confidence and belief at the club. Losing him and Burn together can't be just brushed aside imho.

 

[keaton]

It's funny. I read Attila's post an nodded in agreement. Then I read Hans Kray and others, and nodded in agreement again.

The fact is we humans see patterns that don't exist. Our pattern 'recognition' facilities are designed to help us see into the future.

Likewise we use our confirmation bias to explain events, 'proving' whatever prejuduces we favour.

The reality is we have a choice here: back the club or stop watching. I don't go to football to boo Tony Bloom or Potter. Or the players. We are what we are. We are not run by Archer or the Saudis.

Bloom may sack Potter at the end of the season. The likes of [MENTION=17322]Lenny Rider[/MENTION] consider this very unlikely. So be it. We regroup next season.

Football is a bit of an escape from the real world, an entertainment, not an embodiment of the march of socialism, even if sometimes we may (or man not) feel it would be nice to be, different, somehow,

I get that to some extent but it's not(at this level) much of an escape any more. Various murderous regimes taking over clubs, constant gambling adverts, venture capitalists and the like taking over clubs, tax dodging ,various criminal activities from players, racism, etc. Hoping for things to be run in a better way seems pretty straightforward and not really that political.

 

[Perry Milkins]

It's funny. I read Attila's post an nodded in agreement. Then I read Hans Kray and others, and nodded in agreement again.

The fact is we humans see patterns that don't exist. Our pattern 'recognition' facilities are designed to help us see into the future.

Likewise we use our confirmation bias to explain events, 'proving' whatever prejuduces we favour.

The reality is we have a choice here: back the club or stop watching. I don't go to football to boo Tony Bloom or Potter. Or the players. We are what we are. We are not run by Archer or the Saudis.

Bloom may sack Potter at the end of the season. The likes of [MENTION=17322]Lenny Rider[/MENTION] consider this very unlikely. So be it. We regroup next season.

Football is a bit of an escape from the real world, an entertainment, not an embodiment of the march of socialism, even if sometimes we may (or man not) feel it would be nice to be, different, somehow,

Prunes taste horrid and socks smell after a day's wear.

Just want HWT to nod in agreement?

 

[Justice]

None of the above, Potter is picking the wrong team game after game. Wednesday’s line up wasn’t a team to win it was a team to draw at home, which it didn’t.

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

I find it hard to believe that Ashworth leaving has:

Meant Lamptey is unable to beat a ban
Caused Cucurella to do nothing going forward
Made Dunk looked shaky
Turned Sanchez into a blunder prone keeper
Forced Bissouma into a sulk
Caused Trossard to disappear
Reverted Mac Allister back to the 2021 version that goes missing
Stopped Maupay looking like scoring
Injured Adam Webster

Even if Ashworth did man manage some of these players (seems unlikely) i don't believe him leaving has caused everyone to go off the boil.


Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[Springal]

We'll see the full extend of Ashworth impact in the summer with player recruitment in and out I reckon. I'm predicting it won't be pretty

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Prunes taste horrid and socks smell after a day's wear.

Just want HWT to nod in agreement?

What have you got against prunes?

Socks don't smell after one day's wear, unless you have cheap shoes (plimsoles, and the like).

Must try harder if you want a nod from me

 

[beorhthelm]

performance and results are predictable, Potter sounds deflated. we'll pin that on someone leaving, rather than Potter, who's job it is to coach the team and deliver results? maybe he is affected by Ashworth leaving, still his responsibility to push and get the team performing.

also, is Chelsea, with club identity and ground owned by fans group, closer to the German model than any other club?

 

[Weststander]

Why not having it at all? .

[MENTION=528]attila[/MENTION] has just posted a hypothesis, unless he, or you or I are at Lancing regularly and see all the dynamics that go on, then it's a fair enough point to make if looking for why we've suddenly turned the year looking so fragile. I don't think Ashworth was just effectively a scout if the only thing he did was recruitment. I suspect his role throughout the club was a lot more involved.

For all we know Ashworth and Potter worked really closely as sounding blocks, opinions, whatever. Perhaps Ashworth was a confidente to some of the players who could share with him what they might not do with the management. He might have regularly met GP and his coaching staff to review their plans for the week, tactical decisons, selections etc. I have no idea, BUT, 2 major things happened in January to coincide with our downturn; Burn and Ashworth went.

I don't disagree that hanging the entire downturn on Ashworth leaving is not likely, Burn was clearly a bigger impact, however to suggest it hasn't impacted and it will only be felt later - not sure you can know that.

I agree with all this.

Potter’s a relatively inexperienced manager and coach. Open-minded, he would’ve gained confidence and knowledge in working on a week-to-week basis with DA. The effect of his pending then actual departure might be felt straight away. There is no other coaching guru left at the club for GP to turn to for/with ideas, for example, in a defensive injury crisis or drop in form of forwards.

 

[Springal]

performance and results are predictable, Potter sounds deflated. we'll pin that on someone leaving, rather than Potter, who's job it is to coach the team and deliver results? maybe he is affected by Ashworth leaving, still his responsibility to push and get the team performing.

Depends though - he was bought in with a certain structure in place and it is no longer there. While I agree it is not a complete excuse, it is a hell of a coincidence

If Ashworth doesn't have much impact - then what were the club thinking hiring a manager with very little football management experience, giving him the 5th lowest budget in the Premier League and giving him the target of top 10 finish. We might as well have just got Nathan Jones back