I think you right wingers call this the politics of envy? (Joke)
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Same old Tories - completely out of touch
- Thread starter 1066familyman
- Start date
I think you right wingers call this the politics of envy? (Joke)
Confusing? Its typical Tory rhetoric to claim to be caring but then shaft anyone who is disadvantaged and/or doesn't conform to their dull script.
nicko31
Well-known member
Big on rhetoric but no detail, just loads of sound bites. We'll see if the workers party delivers Autumn statement.
Hastings gull
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 4,652
My house in Hove is my primary family home. I'm not going to sell it. What I do with it is my business and I'm not in the habit of broadcasting my personal affairs on an Internet forum especially when it involves others such as my family and the folk who stay at my place). Similarly I don't typically talk in detail about my work or other personal things with strangers on forums.
Yes it's let. But I can reconcile this with my beliefs on landlords. I have stated before I actually supported Cameron's tax and position on buy-2-letters.
That said you seem a decent person (I'll overlook the champagne socialist comment). If I were to meet you in person I'd happily explain my situation; I think most people who know me will consider me reasonably open and honest.
Yes, you are entitled to your privacy and I have indeed known you to be open, such as when you did write "fair cop" after I caught you out, when trying to use a Bild Zeitung quote to lecture others, when you yourself would never read that rag. The fact remains, however, that millions of Tory voters in this country only have one home, not two, and thus when you, with your left wing views, talk about those Tories doing down those less fortunate, it does grate and open you up to the accusation of hypocrisy. Yes, you might conveniently have supported David Cameron's tax policy etc, but then champagne socialists probably all secretly do.
Mellor 3 Ward 4
Well-known member
I reckon the Autumn Statement will see a fair shift in Tory policy. Borrowing to spend on infrastructure, abandoning the idea of paying off the deficit,
I'd put Mrs May just to the left of Blair.
Hastings gull
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 4,652
Yes, this may well be the case, that there could be shift, as you say, but I think the highlighted statement is rather exaggerated. It may be less than top priority, but if they simply decide to abandon paying it off, then they could hardly claim to be the party which looks after financial affairs prudently.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
I've always been a One-Nation Tory and long held those views on right-to-buy, what has changed is that moving from working as an accountant in the City to one in the not-for-profit sector, I think I've been given a better appreciation of just how precariously a lot of people live. Previously, I don't think I'd have had particularly strong views one way or the other on Osborne's disability cuts but I've now had a glimpse into how this would affect people - and I've no doubt you see it every day - it has changed my outlook.
I've never been a City banker but met lot of them and I wouldn't recommend it. The money's spectacular but they tend to be alpha-male, back-stabbing bores. It's what makes them so good at their job.
I'm not right wing, slightly left of the centre ground!
From a position wealth and good social standing claim to care about those less fortunate than themselves going someway to convincing themselves and others around that they are some way more caring than the average man thus making feel somewhat elite. AKA Champagne Socialist!
Mo Gosfield
Well-known member
- Aug 11, 2010
- 6,362
She showed before the EU referendum vote that she was prepared to forsake her beliefs ( she was committed to Leave ) in order to try and back the winning horse. She waited until the last possible moment before declaring her hand. She listened to Tory party advisors who were predicting a narrow Remain win and finally sided with the PM, as a show of unity. She is as determined as anyone to leave the EU far behind, so there will be little or no compromise deals.
I am a little puzzled as to how Grammar schools reflect privilege. When education was deemed mildly competitive, in an attempt to reflect the real world and give kids a chance to see what lies ahead, a place at a Grammar school was earnt through ability, not privilege. Those that failed the entrance exam, had a chance later, if they showed progress, to transfer. Unless the proposals are for fee-paying Grammar schools only, then I can't see where privilege comes into it.
Politics is an endless whirl of U turns, about turns, backsliding, backstabbing and a desperate desire to cling to power. Its always been a dirty and pretty disreputable business. One of the longest serving PM's in recent history, was a Conservative, pretending to be Labour and sounding like a Liberal.
If right to buy had been part of a comprehensive housing policy, whereby the housing stock was increased by national/local government as houses were sold to previous tenants, then it could have worked.
Instead local authorities have had budget cuts so the affordable housing stock pool is diminished , nimbyism rules in areas of relative wealth because the existing homeowners have a higher proportion of professionals who know how to use the system (for example in my village a proposal for 375 new homes was defeated https://mobberleyrams.wordpress.com) which makes it more expensive to move up the ladder, exacerbating the problem at the lower end of the market) and private sector developers are sitting on huge swathes of land because if they delay building properties then it increases the price of the homes they're presently constructing.
Instead local authorities have had budget cuts so the affordable housing stock pool is diminished , nimbyism rules in areas of relative wealth because the existing homeowners have a higher proportion of professionals who know how to use the system (for example in my village a proposal for 375 new homes was defeated https://mobberleyrams.wordpress.com) which makes it more expensive to move up the ladder, exacerbating the problem at the lower end of the market) and private sector developers are sitting on huge swathes of land because if they delay building properties then it increases the price of the homes they're presently constructing.
Privilege comes in respect of grammar schools because the more wealthy can afford the private tutors who coach the kids to pass the entrance exams. The entrance exams don't test ability, they test rote learning and if you practice enough past papers then it is relatively easy to succeed in them..
Grammar schools tend to be in areas of relative wealth so costs such as transport, uniforms, school trips etc. become an issue for poorer families.
Tory wet?
SNP
I had the benefit of a Grammar school education and the picture you paint does not reflect my experience. I went to St Nicholas primary in Portslade. There were 2 classes in each year. I had no idea I was in the 'A' stream till after the 11 plus results. There were 6 boys and 7 girls our of a class of 30 (my class) who passed the exam. In the 'B' stream there were no passes. One of the girls who passed, who lived in Mile Oak, was sent to the secondary modern because her parents did not think a grammar school was the right place for a working class girl (in the words of the girl ' that's where the snobs go to school'). Her initials are SF.
During my entire time at HGSB, there were NO boys transferred in for 'doing well' at a secondary modern. We had one boy transferred in for a short period after he had been expelled from all nearby schools, but he didn't stay long (poor little sod was horribly neglected at home).
Back to the selection process, in my class at St Nick's, we were coached by the teacher by doing mock IQ tests every week for the entire 4th year. Some of us found we went from mid 60s to over 90% in every test by the Spring. I am not sure the B stream were coached. It would be interesting to find out.
the other interesting thing is that the A and B streams were set in the first year when we were age seven. This was not based on any entry test (the kids came from portslade county infants in the man, but also from other infants' school). I was never testd at any time. But the class compositions never changed at any time in the 4 years at junior school. So I have no idea how the streams were set. I guess I was extraordinarily lucky, especially as I was classed as 'remedial' for a time when I was at infants school (I was bored and deliberately wrote badly, and the teachers were too thick to realise I was bored, not 'subnormal').
Overall, getting to Grammar school transformed my life, but the process by which I got in was entirely opaque, and seemed to invole a process of selection and hot housing that was not disclosed tp parents or children, and was presumably arranged by and for the benefit of the junior school. It is a very long time ago now but I almost wonder whether we were streamed on scruffiness, level of nutrition and general smell (i.e., class). I remember one boy, initials RW, in the B stream, proudly showing us, at break time, the scar on his hand caused by having a cigarette stibbed out in him when he 'joined a gang'. He was nine at the time. Another boy from the B stream (initials with held) was, according to himself,, engaged in flagrante with his 8 year old sister. All this was 'other world' stuff to 'A stream' types, so my guess is that there was streaming at 7 done by class. I am not sure this is what May has in mind when she advocates a return to Grammar schools. She is as old as me and probably has a similar faded memory of the past. Leave it, would be my advice. Times have changed, thankfully.
Seems supporters of grammar schools always ignore the above.
Hastings gull
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 4,652
Thanks for this -fascinating insight. I do feel that there is some contradiction here - on the one hand you can recall vividly when quoting facts that back up your agenda, but then talk of faded memories. The fact that you as a seven year old did not know why there was setting, does not mean that the process was not rigorous. My 6 year old granddaughter took part in government tests on her reading ability last summer, and was just asked to read 40 words outside of the class; she had no idea of the significance, so you would not have known had there been surreptitious testing of your ability.
I too recall 2 sets and like you was in the better group, believe it or not, and even at a young age at Stanford Road Primary School being aware that other children had differing backgrounds and abilities. Most in my class passed the 11+ and went on to the school which is now known as Baswick. I do recall some movement either way, particularly at the end of the second year, when we returned to school and found that some boys were no longer there. I have to be careful, as some are Albion fans and may read this, but I did have friends who came from the less wealthy parts of Brighton, so my experience is that there was social movement. Also, the argument put forward, not by your self, I know, that grammars are only ever in the wealthiest parts was not true in Brighton -Westlain served East Brighton admirably -my mum taught there, and often talked about how working class parents would give such incredible support, as they were so pleased and proud that their child could gain good qualifications.
Where perhaps the system went wrong, was that grammars seemed to get the lion's share of any funding and I recall the brand new 6th form Common Room being built during my time there, over the path alongside, which I think is still standing. I personally would be happy to see a system of grammars and whatever you want to call the alternative, as it is quite obvious that children are different and should be treated so. If the other schools were to be properly financed, and, given that these children would not be academic, and in many cases have little interest in learning about coffee bean farmers in Columbia, much coaching were in place to start, say, apprenticeships, then there is every chance that non-academic children would have far greater motivation.
Perhaps entrance exams could be changed to reflect ability rather than rote learning? I just feel that we as a society are far too quick to write off any suggestion that education could be improved by teaching different things to different people. Which just leads to a dumbing down of society as a whole in my view.