[Albion] Sam Smith Non Binary

[beorhthelm]

Thats actually messed up.

so are the many thousands of children who are going in to gender reassignment through drugs or even surgery.

 

[NogansRun]

People comparing this to Prince changing has name to a symbol are way off the mark. Prince did this as a protest against Warner Bros records who owned his name and all his music at the time, leaving him with no control over his own career. It had nothing to do with gender and pronouns etc. The current debate about gender is all bullshit as any sensible thinking person knows. As Prince himself said, let a woman be a woman and a man be a man.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

I have to say I'm too old for all of this. I'm a humanist so love and respect everyone and I feel people are free to express as they wish .. however, it's also OK not to understand or be influenced by it.

Society is now being biased towards minorities, they need to be heard, respected and treated equally but no more than that, we've gone too far with all of this.

My Son, when in Year 8 was asked how he wished to be identified, he, being my Son, wrote "Squirrel", I kid you not. This has remained on his school record ever since and he's now in bloody sixth form. In my day we'd have been caned for being a tw*t, perhaps too far but he should have been reprimanded in some way.

Men have willies and ladies have gardens, if we all start at that point we may get through this.

 

[Easy 10]

As Prince himself said, let a woman be a woman and a man be a man.

He also said "Then you jerk your body like a horny pony would, now run and tell yo' mama 'bout that".

I got a clip round the ear.

 

[schmunk]

As Prince himself said, let a woman be a woman and a man be a man.

He's in a bit of trouble for that now...

 

[jamie (not that one)]

He's in a bit of trouble for that now...

Luckily it can be all swept under the rug... again.

 

[beorhthelm]

People comparing this to Prince changing has name to a symbol are way off the mark. Prince did this as a protest against Warner Bros records who owned his name and all his music at the time, leaving him with no control over his own career. It had nothing to do with gender and pronouns etc. The current debate about gender is all bullshit as any sensible thinking person knows. As Prince himself said, let a woman be a woman and a man be a man.

there was definitely sexuality/androgyny involved, look at the composition of the symbol. its a usful comparison, as shows how we dont need a vociferous lobby hounding and vilifying anyone who uses an incorrect pronoun.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But gender is not a spectrum. The idea that gender is malleable is just wrong.



Yes, you can be a male with feminine characteristics, but this does not make you a woman. Or in this case non-binary.



How far do you go with it then? Where's the line? If a 50 year old man wants to identify as a 6 year old girl (literally happened in Toronto), or someone identifies as a chicken, should we adopt the same attitude and treat them as such? It's insane and you know it.



The main issue with this is people are now actually losing their jobs or getting arrested other 'incorrect use of pronouns'. As i said in an earlier post, this is the only form of body dysmorphia that society attempts to treat this way. You do not do it with Anorexia, and rightly so.

Yet another who seems to be conflating sex with gender. You also seem to be confusing gender identity with body dysmorphia.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But gender is not a spectrum. The idea that gender is malleable is just wrong.

So why do you think is it wrong? I’m genuinely interested in hearing your answer.

 

[Triggaaar]

The main issue with this is people are now actually losing their jobs or getting arrested other 'incorrect use of pronouns'.

Seriously? Presumably that's if people are doing it on purpose to take the piss, rather than for innocent mistakes?

Reading the comments Sam's made on the subject, they just seem very confused. If they don't want to be called a man, that's fine by me. Sam said they think like a woman sometimes - what does that mean? How is a woman supposed to think differently than a man? I find that sexist to be honest. Apparently Sam puts on weight in places women put on weight. Yeah, right And they described being non-binary as being "your own special creation". Oh good grief.

 

[Triggaaar]

But gender is not a spectrum. The idea that gender is malleable is just wrong.

I think that applies to sex (male or female biological and physical structure) rather than gender, which refers to socially constructed ideas.

 

[NogansRun]

there was definitely sexuality/androgyny involved, look at the composition of the symbol. its a usful comparison, as shows how we dont need a vociferous lobby hounding and vilifying anyone who uses an incorrect pronoun.

The symbol did suggest this, but he never made it about that. When the Warner Bros contract ended in 2000 and he regained control over his own career, he reverted to Prince - or maybe he just did that as he noticed that he did in fact still have a penis.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

He's in a bit of trouble for that now...

Luckily his privilege will see him through although I fear this isn't the worst case that could be laid against him! *This, of course, isn't his hand around her waist he has chubbier fingers ... honest!

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Firstly Sam Smith doesnt have a particularly good voice. What he does have is an unusually high pitched tone usually associated with female singers and he can sing in tune. But that's about it his actual voice is very average.

The binary stuff is just attention seeking nonsense

* Alas you're missing his very devious marketing plan, whenever this non-type of story comes out people click to listen to his music, i.e. "is he really as bad as people are saying?" Just check Apple charts etc this week, he'll feature.

 

[Chicken Run]

Seriously? Presumably that's if people are doing it on purpose to take the piss, rather than for innocent mistakes?

Reading the comments Sam's made on the subject, they just seem very confused. If they don't want to be called a man, that's fine by me. Sam said they think like a woman sometimes - what does that mean? How is a woman supposed to think differently than a man? I find that sexist to be honest. Apparently Sam puts on weight in places women put on weight. Yeah, right And they described being non-binary as being "your own special creation". Oh good grief.

Maybe he was in the bath one night like Mel Gibson in What Women Want?

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Seriously? Presumably that's if people are doing it on purpose to take the piss, rather than for innocent mistakes?

Reading the comments Sam's made on the subject, they just seem very confused. If they don't want to be called a man, that's fine by me. Sam said they think like a woman sometimes - what does that mean? How is a woman supposed to think differently than a man? I find that sexist to be honest. Apparently Sam puts on weight in places women put on weight. Yeah, right And they described being non-binary as being "your own special creation". Oh good grief.

as have I .... it's called Greggs!

 

[BadFish]

But gender is not a spectrum. The idea that gender is malleable is just wrong.

My understanding of it is that sex is non malleable, I agree. However the discussion here is that gender is absolutely maleable. It is a social construct that we have placed on sex as expected behaviours. Seeing gender as binary cannot explain why we have gradations of manliness and femininity. Seeing gender as a spectrum is a much more effective way of analyzing it. Men are not all the same, some are way more 'in touch with their feminine side' (as we used to call it) and some are much more blokey. This is similar for women. I think this is a far more useful way of discussion people' feeling and behaviours. I am not sure what is wrong with viewing people in this way.

Yes, you can be a male with feminine characteristics, but this does not make you a woman. Or in this case non-binary.

True, but surely one should be able to define and describe themself in a way that they feel comfortable. This is again the problem with seeing gender as simplistically male or female. There are many people out there that do not find these definitions adequately describe how they feel. I suppose that this is why we have these new descriptions that we are all trying to get our heads around. I don't expect I will understand them all until I am required.

How far do you go with it then? Where's the line? If a 50 year old man wants to identify as a 6 year old girl (literally happened in Toronto), or someone identifies as a chicken, should we adopt the same attitude and treat them as such? It's insane and you know it.

I am still trying to get to grips with this gender issue so to start trying to grapple with peoples feelings about age and species is beyond me at present (again I probably won't understand this until it is necessary for me to do so). A broad answer to your question would be that you go as far as is reasonable with causing pain or discomfort to others. I believe that their are people who identify as animals "furries" i believe they are called? They don't seem to be doing much harm to others. My wife met one at college and she found no problem with it. While people are staying the right side of the law and morality, I don't really have much issue with how they spend their time or view themselves.

The main issue with this is people are now actually losing their jobs or getting arrested other 'incorrect use of pronouns'.

This seems a bit nuts. I haven't read your links as yet.

As i said in an earlier post, this is the only form of body dysmorphia that society attempts to treat this way. You do not do it with Anorexia, and rightly so.

Where I am at with this notion is really the concept of seeing gender as a spectrum. I don't think I will understand the links to other things until I have got my head around this idea. I am not sure how the ideas link together at present (I would love a link to some information if you have it). Or how they link to Anorexia, However, I would say that in all cases I hope that people are given the treatment and help that they need top live a happy and healthy life.

 

[schmunk]

as have I .... it's called Greggs!

 

[BadFish]

You may have seen this already, but the Jessica Yaniv case out in Canada is unbelievable. An example of just how F'd up this 'gender spectrum' really is, and the dangers it can cause.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/07/why-we-cant-ignore-the-case-of-jessica-yaniv/

I would disagree that this is an example of how "F's up this gender spectrum really is and the dangers it can cause". IT looks to me more like an example of how someone is being unreasonable and obnoxious about something, and they happen to be transgender. If anyone were claiming that the gender spectrum would stop people from being knobheads then this would be quality evidence that it clearly doesn't. However no one is claiming that and this article shoes that feeling comfortable with your gender identification clearly doesn't stop you from being unreasonable and a ****. Who would have thought it?

Interestingly the Guardian were not schtum about this incident they had this to say.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/27/male-genitalia-week-in-patriarchy-women

Which makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Easy 10]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...er-17-month-old-baby-childs-grandparents.html

A couple are refusing to reveal the sex of their 17-month-old baby to their close family because they want to protect them from 'unconscious gender bias'.

Mother Hobbit Humphrey, 38, and father Jake England-Johns, 35, who live on a houseboat in Keynsham, near Bath, said they are currently dressing 17-month-old Anoush in both boys and girls clothes.

The married couple, both members of the Extinction Rebellion climate action group, are also asking friends and family to address the toddler using the gender-neutral pronouns, 'they' and 'them'.

One of the child's grandparents said they only found out the baby's gender after 11 months, when changing a nappy. Ms Humphrey and Mr England-Johns appeared on BBC One's Inside Out last night to explain their decision was the only way to stop people treating their child differently based on gender.

They said the baby, whose name was changed to Charlie in the programme, will be allowed to decide at a later age on its gender and preferred pronoun. Mr England-Johns said: 'Gender neutral refers to us trying to behave neutrally towards the child, rather than trying to make them neutral.

'We're not trying to make them be anything. We just want them to be themselves.' Hobbit Humphrey added: 'So much of gender bias is unconscious. When I got pregnant we then were having a discussion about how we were going to mitigate the unconscious bias.

'And we figured that the only way we could do that was just not to tell people.

'To use the they/them pronoun for as long as we can, and create this little bubble for our baby to be who they are.

'Eventually they will get told by somebody that pink is only for girls and blue is only for boys, and you can't play with that because you are a particular sex. 'That's still a thing that happens these days. We're just trying to protect Anoush from that.'

The couple, who are both circus performers, said their decision to dress Anoush in boys' and girls' clothes has led to 'some pretty confused looks from old ladies in the park'.

Grandmother Camille, 64, Ms Humphrey's mother, didn't discover the child's gender for 11 months, when she changed a nappy.

She said: 'It was a struggle... but as with any learning over time it became embedded and they became 'they'.' Mr England-Johns added: 'We are quite good now at holding space for people's discomfort in us saying, ''Actually, we don't tell anyone, we're not telling anyone for now''. We're just letting Anoush be a baby.

'Anoush is the most lovely little human. They're into everything, they're really active — just a delight.'

Ms Humphrey said: 'It was tricky at first when not only were we new parents, but also new parents who had the problem of people getting upset about our baby being gender neutral.

'But in the end it has proven to be a really beautiful thing and we've had a lot of important conversations from it.'It has had the effect we wanted, of letting our baby develop its own interests regardless of gender. So, for example, while they love having a doll's tea party every morning, they also are really fascinated by motorbikes and machinery.

'Eventually once our baby is old enough, they can obviously decide for themselves what gender they want to be, but for now we just want them to be able to grow up in their own little bubble.'

This was in todays Mail Online (yes, I know). Personally I think this child will grow up to be very confused, and will certainly struggle in early life to fit in. Hobbit and Jake are fulfilling their liberal agenda and free-thinking ways through imposing it on their baby, but I'm not entirely sure its going to lead to a happy well-adjusted kid in the long run.