[Football] Salah/Ramos: Not sure this is going away.

[Stat Brother]

Genuine question:-

Who did what when Stockdale threw the ball over his shoulder, at Villa Park?

 

[Nixonator]

He committed an error. Not just any error. But the kind of error that you would be furious with a school boy for committing. Are you honestly telling me that if your mate did that in the park in your team's biggest game of the season you'd be over there giving him a hug and telling him you're happy about it?

A hug and tell him I'm happy? What? I would probably go over and give him a pep talk and tell him to forget about it yea.... but even if I wasn't that way inclined, I'm not a professional.

It's not good for team spirit to let a player stew on it, you need to move past it and take it as a team not point fingers. I doubt it helped his morale at all, and as Klopp even said himself, the first error lead to the second and I wouldn't be at all surprised if some part of it was down to not a single team mate telling him to keep his head up.

They even got back in the game before Bale scored a worldy, so I have no idea how liverpool fans and faux liverpool fans alike are blaming the keeper for the result. There's was no way they were winning that game without Salah. I doubt they would have won it with him to be completely honest.

 

[drew]

My take is that Ramos deliberately set out to injure Salah. Whether it was the arm he was holding or the other shoulder, he as kept a hold of Salah's arm and then rolled towards him when his momentum was actually taking him the other way so the natural thing would have been to roll away from Salah. Up until that point most would argue that Liverpool were well in the game but take out their biggest threat and that changed the game.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Genuine question:-

Who did what when Stockdale threw the ball over his shoulder, at Villa Park?

I cannot repeat what I said. Well, not before the watershed anyway.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

A hug and tell him I'm happy? What? I would probably go over and give him a pep talk and tell him to forget about it yea.... but even if I wasn't that way inclined, I'm not a professional.

It's not good for team spirit to let a player stew on it, you need to move past it and take it as a team not point fingers. I doubt it helped his morale at all, and as Klopp even said himself, the first error lead to the second and I wouldn't be at all surprised if some part of it was down to not a single team mate telling him to keep his head up.

They even got back in the game before Bale scored a worldy, so I have no idea how liverpool fans and faux liverpool fans alike are blaming the keeper for the result. There's was no way they were winning that game without Salah. I doubt they would have won it with him to be completely honest.

I doubt it as well.
Had it not been 3-1, Bale would have squared to Ronaldo, for a simple tap-in ( it was obvious and foregiveable that he tried to get a hattrick ) They had the clearer chances. They had far more power on the bench and would have managed the game as the circumstances dictated. The loss of Salah saw Mane step up to the plate and turn in a tremendous performance and both fullbacks played really well. Ultimately, there was too much class, too much experience and too much savvy for Liverpool. One step too far.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

My take is that Ramos deliberately set out to injure Salah. Whether it was the arm he was holding or the other shoulder, he as kept a hold of Salah's arm and then rolled towards him when his momentum was actually taking him the other way so the natural thing would have been to roll away from Salah. Up until that point most would argue that Liverpool were well in the game but take out their biggest threat and that changed the game.

Perhaps indicative of how much they have relied on Salah this season. Not dissimilar to the effect that Suarez had on them. Take either player out and there is a big difference. Take Ronaldo out of Madrid and they can still function in pretty much the same way.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Always the victims. Meanwhile, in other news, it's 33 years ago today that the Hysel Stadium disaster happened. It's all gone a bit quiet ooop norf.

No, to be fair, one of the cleaning ladies did give the small memorial a polish this morning.

 

[Simon Morgan]

You don’t think it changed the game then? I hold my hand up to being outraged if it had happened to Albion’s star player, even if I have no idea who our star player is

And to be honest this is partly what informs my generally 'meh' attitude towards Liverpool's complaints. If their team is as good as everyone says, then why did they pretty much fall to pieces when one player went off? To make the comparison, if De Bruyne went off for City in similar circumstances, of course the Citeh contingent would be annoyed and aggrieved but you think they'd do a better job of getting over for it and covering for him personnel wise. To make a probably slightly less valid comparison, if Gross got injured in a game for us, I'd fancy us to at least try and execute a plan B. Liverpool have spent that much of the season banging on and on about Salah being the best player in the history of the world ever (not to mention the Salah v Ronaldo final bullshit) that it kind of always meant that they'd be a bit screwed should anything happen to him. I can understand how one's best player going off can negatively influence a team's performance, but, at the elite level, is it ok that it made as much of a difference as it did?

 

[Bold Seagull]

My take is that Ramos deliberately set out to injure Salah. Whether it was the arm he was holding or the other shoulder, he as kept a hold of Salah's arm and then rolled towards him when his momentum was actually taking him the other way so the natural thing would have been to roll away from Salah. Up until that point most would argue that Liverpool were well in the game but take out their biggest threat and that changed the game.

He deliberately set out to ensure Salah went to ground with him, as a defender you wouldn't want the attacker up before you if you could help it, and you wouldn't want him putting pressure on the ball, so if you can bring him down with you, you would. To me that is the same as when you make a sliding tackle, you don't just want to win the ball, you want to win the ball and take the man with you. Can't see that he would have deliberately set out to injure him, just kept hold of him so he wouldn't be first up and away.

 

[Bold Seagull]

And to be honest this is partly what informs my generally 'meh' attitude towards Liverpool's complaints. If their team is as good as everyone says, then why did they pretty much fall to pieces when one player went off? To make the comparison, if De Bruyne went off for City in similar circumstances, of course the Citeh contingent would be annoyed and aggrieved but you think they'd do a better job of getting over for it and covering for him personnel wise. To make a probably slightly less valid comparison, if Gross got injured in a game for us, I'd fancy us to at least try and execute a plan B. Liverpool have spent that much of the season banging on and on about Salah being the best player in the history of the world ever (not to mention the Salah v Ronaldo final bullshit) that it kind of always meant that they'd be a bit screwed should anything happen to him. I can understand how one's best player going off can negatively influence a team's performance, but, at the elite level, is it ok that it made as much of a difference as it did?

Of course it is. As the margins reduce so do the impacts of any gains you might have. Not every team can afford a Ronaldo then buy a Bale as back up.

 

[hart's shirt]

Salah will be signed by Madrid this summer.

Apparently Ramos twisted his arm.

 

[spence]

I'm even more glad Liverpool lost. Pathetic.

 

[Billy the Fish]

As others have pointed out we had Adam El Abd who used to do this kind of thing all the time, it's just gamesmanship.
I used to do it when I played, especially to the forwards who were quicker than me, you're not trying to injure anyone but just even out their speed advantage a little bit - if you both go down you make sure you go down with your weight on top of them, you leave your foot in when you tackle, a tread on the toes at corners, a concealed shirt tub at the right moment. The Italians are masters of it.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

I'm even more glad Liverpool lost. Pathetic.

Spence we're going to make you into a Sussex Red if it's the last thing NSC ever achieves. Looking at this link, annual membership is only £3 (three pounds!!!). Compare that to the RIP off price of an Albion season ticket and you're quids in. #GoodTimes.

https://www.thebrightonkop.com

Altogether now:
"When you walk down Madeira Drive,
Hold you head up high,
And don't be afraid of the dark..."

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

It was not a tackle. Just a good wrestling/judo throw. As far as I know, tackling involves feet and the ball. And yes, I am suggesting that he was trying to harm the player, it seems to be his 'job'. Sorry, but the arm lock/bar and throw to the ground were nothing to do with Ramos getting the ball at all. Watch the whole thing and you will see his focus in not on ball, it is on taking Salah down. He fell awkwardly because Ramos manipulated and controlled the way he went down. Utter ****.

This happens every week in football, lineaker said as much at half time. Now if Ramos is trained at judo or ninjutsu then maybe he was deliberately intending to cause Salah injury, but as far as I’m aware he isn’t. Arm locks aren’t the easiest things in the world to do especially when you are running and grappling with someone. He certainly wanted him on the deck but I would hazard nothing more than that.
If he was intending to take salah out of the game then he choose a strange way of doing it, far easier to be slightly late on a tackle with a little bit of stud showing, which would be right up his street. Yellow card and it would be classed as just as one of those things.

Ramos is a nasty little sh*t, who dishes it out but doesn’t like it dished back, the sort of player you hope gets injured when trying to take someone out, however in this case I don’t believe it was intentional.
Liverpool were never going to win the game even with salah on the pitch.

 

[drew]

He deliberately set out to ensure Salah went to ground with him, as a defender you wouldn't want the attacker up before you if you could help it, and you wouldn't want him putting pressure on the ball, so if you can bring him down with you, you would. To me that is the same as when you make a sliding tackle, you don't just want to win the ball, you want to win the ball and take the man with you. Can't see that he would have deliberately set out to injure him, just kept hold of him so he wouldn't be first up and away.

Keeping the attacker down is one thing but twisting your body whilst holding his arm so your weight is putting pressure on his elbow and shoulder is a deliberate attempt at injury. As it turned out is was the other shoulder that was damaged but the outcome was probably what Ramos wanted, ie Salah went off injured. Can't believe some people don't think there are professional footballers out there who have no regard for the welfare of an opponent. Their goal is to win and in some cases that means by fair means or foul!

With regard to your comparison with the sliding tackle, if you take the man after the ball and it is deemed to be reckless and/or deliberate than that's a foul in this day and age.

 

[Hillian1]

I shall light a candle and pray for them.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Keeping the attacker down is one thing but twisting your body whilst holding his arm so your weight is putting pressure on his elbow and shoulder is a deliberate attempt at injury. As it turned out is was the other shoulder that was damaged but the outcome was probably what Ramos wanted, ie Salah went off injured. Can't believe some people don't think there are professional footballers out there who have no regard for the welfare of an opponent. Their goal is to win and in some cases that means by fair means or foul!

With regard to your comparison with the sliding tackle, if you take the man after the ball and it is deemed to be reckless and/or deliberate than that's a foul in this day and age.

I'm not saying footballers wouldn't do it, I'm just not crediting Ramos with black belt judo skills knowing what he was going to do was going to injure his opponent. Fair means or foul, I think he just brings him down, and yeah probably thinks land on him with his weight if he can, take the wind out of him, but I cannot see in that position you're suddenly thinking you can dislocate someone's arm.

With regard to the tackle, if it's deemed reckless doesn't matter if you take the ball or not. I wasn't talking about a reckless tackle, I was talking about a fair winning of the ball where as a defender you would want to take the man as well - that has been in football forever and a day.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It happened against Liverpool, It was never going to go away.

I don't think Real Madrid fans understand how many years this will go on for.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

This happens every week in football, lineaker said as much at half time. Now if Ramos is trained at judo or ninjutsu then maybe he was deliberately intending to cause Salah injury, but as far as I’m aware he isn’t. Arm locks aren’t the easiest things in the world to do especially when you are running and grappling with someone. He certainly wanted him on the deck but I would hazard nothing more than that.
If he was intending to take salah out of the game then he choose a strange way of doing it, far easier to be slightly late on a tackle with a little bit of stud showing, which would be right up his street. Yellow card and it would be classed as just as one of those things.

Ramos is a nasty little sh*t, who dishes it out but doesn’t like it dished back, the sort of player you hope gets injured when trying to take someone out, however in this case I don’t believe it was intentional.
Liverpool were never going to win the game even with salah on the pitch.

Yeah, I sort of get your point although i'm not sure what Liverpool being a one trick pony has to do with it. If anything it just shows the cynical nature of the incident. Take out the danger man.
As for the tackle I still maintain he locked his arm and put in his hip to throw him around and down, then landed on the arm just to make sure. If this is not even a foul then maybe we do need to start working on our 'dark arts' techniques so we can compete at PL level with this aspect of combative football. If its ok, then its ok. Bruno's got some good moves, but he's not in Ramos's league.