[Football] Safe standing

[Is it PotG?]

It may become, as it has 'away', a bit of a free for all where folk decide to go and stand with their mates, whether space allows it or not.

Whatever next, they'll allow beer on the terraces next!

 

[Acker79]

Having been in the safe standing area at Chelsea i am pretty sure it would mean less people in a given area because of all the rails which have to be put in which as i recall mean the seats are actually further apart . Also the rails themselves are a bit of a nuisance getting in and out . So the cost of installation would mean that those who chose to use such an area would probably have to pay more unless the cost was spread over everyone which seems a tad unfair ?

That may now be true. I just remember that when various groups were campaigning to introduce safe standing, one of their arguments used the size of safe standing seats being fractionally smaller allowing more in the given space. Obviously as things have progressed, I'm sure the seats available for it have evolved, and wouldn't be surprised if the smallests cheapest options were being used in the argument, and now it's being put into practice larger ones are being used.

The cost was certainly another argument - those groups would argue that because more seats could go in, clubs could charge less and still make the same overall - the club would highlight this ignores the cost of buying and fitting them, and how in practice it wouldn't be viable for the club to offer them cheaper (especially when coupled with potentially not actually being allowed to sell more tickets, and the fact the ground was still a relative new build that had only recently seen the owner invest 100s of millions of poinds to get it built).

 

[drew]

That may now be true. I just remember that when various groups were campaigning to introduce safe standing, one of their arguments used the size of safe standing seats being fractionally smaller allowing more in the given space. Obviously as things have progressed, I'm sure the seats available for it have evolved, and wouldn't be surprised if the smallests cheapest options were being used in the argument, and now it's being put into practice larger ones are being used.

The cost was certainly another argument - those groups would argue that because more seats could go in, clubs could charge less and still make the same overall - the club would highlight this ignores the cost of buying and fitting them, and how in practice it wouldn't be viable for the club to offer them cheaper (especially when coupled with potentially not actually being allowed to sell more tickets, and the fact the ground was still a relative new build that had only recently seen the owner invest 100s of millions of poinds to get it built).

Not sure that's right. Thought it was on the basis of two normal seats and three standing in the same space.

 

[portlock seagull]

The whole 2 + 2 idea behind safe standing is that it = stand where you want.

Like the old days. When you didn’t need a Masters in Pre Match organisation and could turn up / with groups friends to enjoy together.

Wrong. It equals 5 in this respect. Because we’ve moved far too far into the age of surveillance and control, which clubs want to know at all times. Those who want to stand have done for generations, a blind eye is turned towards by nearly every club in some part of the ground mainly because the law is an ass and has been for a long long time. All this does is decriminalise on a technicality standing in seated areas. Barber and Bloom would be mad to entertain turning the North or wherever into standing area. It would be a waste of money, and contradict all those revenue raisers that fans criticise as penny pinching if we were to spend millions converting. An unnecessary ‘luxury’ well behind better disabled fans facilities, or even toilets outside the stadium and other such worthier causes.

 

[portlock seagull]

It may become, as it has 'away', a bit of a free for all where folk decide to go and stand with their mates, whether space allows it or not.

Whatever next, they'll allow beer on the terraces next!

It won’t and wouldn’t because of STHs. Entirely different situation to away games

 

[Is it PotG?]

It won’t and wouldn’t because of STHs. Entirely different situation to away games

Doesn't stop when people have numbered tickets for aways.

Be a little naive to think some folk might not edge over to pastures new.

"Ah, move along one please mate"....

 

[BN41Albion]

People have been safely standing in seated areas up and down the country with next to no issues whatsoever over the entire time we've had all seater stadia.

 

[Acker79]

Not sure that's right. Thought it was on the basis of two normal seats and three standing in the same space.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.

Seems we're both saying the argument from proponents was that more safe standing seats fit in the space of fewer standard seats. The only difference I can see is you putting specific numbers on it and me not (because I don't remember the specific numbers so wouldn't contest your 3 to 2 suggestion). Or am I totally misreading your post?

 

[Driver8]

Not sure that's right. Thought it was on the basis of two normal seats and three standing in the same space.

Barber has said previously that safe standing would not increase the capacity.

 

[GT49er]

Oh joy this must be the 83rd thread on safe standing and we need it at The Amex.

More chance of getting bottle tops and flasks reinstated than seeing safe standing installed at The Amex.

Now it's been approved I expect it will become a requirement in a very short time - whether PB likes it or not.

Me? I'm a bit meh about it - I couldn't stand through 90 minutes now, not without a great deal of discomfort anyway, so safe standing has no appeal for me - though it would be something to lean on, I suppose. I loved the terraces, and the feeling of being carried down ten steps, and back up again, without needing my feet to touch the ground (yes, I've been on THE Kop in the Shankly days when I was at Uni there) - but standing now? - with just a shin-high easy to trip over barrier in front of me on every step? No thanks.
Lots of people want to stand, so FFS make it safe standing - the present 'compromise' where people - especially away supporters - do stand is more dangerous, IMHO, than the old terraces were. We didn't have shin-high obstacles to trip over on those!

 

[portlock seagull]

Doesn't stop when people have numbered tickets for aways.

Be a little naive to think some folk might not edge over to pastures new.

"Ah, move along one please mate"....

Away games are 1 offs. Be a bit naive to think someone standing in your space for 24 games on the trot wouldn’t be moved on by rhe STH

 

[Is it PotG?]

Away games are 1 offs. Be a bit naive to think someone standing in your space for 24 games on the trot wouldn’t be moved on by rhe STH

Fair enough.

Luckily it won't affect our bunch of iffy kneed sitters.

 

[Milano]

Spurs away - it spoilt what would otherwise have been a massive bundle. Compare it to Palace away. Mind you that is probably why it’s called ‘safe’ standing. Palace - I was bruised for days. Spurs - not a mark.

 

[portlock seagull]

Fair enough.

Luckily it won't affect our bunch of iffy kneed sitters.

I’m getting that way too. It will be karma for when I stood in front of all those older folk as a young ‘un though!

 

[drew]

Barber has said previously that safe standing would not increase the capacity.

Sorry, I was talking generally about safe standing. I know PB has said it wouldn't increase capacity at the amex due exit limitations etc.

 

[sully]

Specific standing areas are good for everyone, as you know that you won’t have someone standing in front of you if you choose a seated area.

For that reason only (choice), they must be introduced as soon as possible in AWAY sections.

I’m happy that the home sections know where standing occurs, but ultimately, these areas should be properly designed for it, too.

 

[southstandandy]

Plenty of safe standing at Shoreham FC.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yep, no need to install rail seats just to do what we're already doing

I think that the point is that standing is not allowed anywhere other than designated safe standing areas.

People standing where they are supposed to be sitting is tolerated, unofficially, and is irrelevant to the discussion about safe standing. If the club so chose it could film the North and ban anyone persistently standing. It won't, of course.

I remember going up to Derby when we were in the championship, around 2003, and Brighton was fined because out support ignored requests to sit.

I assume that eventually the North will look like the pic below.



I can barely contain my indifference.

 

[rippleman]

Not long after he arrived Barber clearly stated that the club would never associate itself with the safe standing campaign.

That intransigent attitude meant that we missed the boat. We can't introduce safe standing now without moving STHs who have had their bums (literally) on seats for ten years. If we start moving people out of their seats to accommodate those wishing to stand it would make us no better than the scumbags up the road.

As others have stated, after a dodgy first few years, since our promotion season the stewards have given up trying to get anybody in the NS to sit. Get a NS ticket and there is no problem for those wanting to stand.

Safe standing would only give Barber an excuse to bung up the prices and nobody wants that, as well as causing upset and unrest amongst those STHs who would be moved to accommodate safe standing.

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

I think it's great news and I hope it comes in at all grounds.

Upon some reflection and having tried this in a few grounds, we are very fortunate that the arrangement to turn a blind eye to standing at the back of the North has lasted 10 years. I think I'm right in saying the majority of the stand do just that? So you could make a case to leave it how it is for now, assuming there have not been standing related injuries with people toppling over.

What I don't like though is Barbs coming out with the line that there isn't the demand for safe standing based on a crappy survey 6 years ago. Hopefully they will rethink that.

Would be good to see if they could put an area in the South Stand though. If we want to boast of a state of the art stadium we need to embrace the latest technologies.

Spurs, Chelsea, Wolves were all fantastic away ends in recent months. Good news for the Premier League.

Oh and I'd love to see how safe standing at QPR compares to White Hart Lane as I don't think i can remember a more cramped ground than that!

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