[Football] Safe Standing

[rippleman]

You are entirely missing the point.

Haven't you noticed the singing to support the team from the NS is rarely impressive and totally disjointed between the various knots of singers? Haven't you also noticed that there is regular hassle around the NS between those who want to stand and sing and those who want to sit? The point of a dedicated safe-standing section is that we can re-shuffle where people want to be.

Which unfortunately is the problem.

A declaration of interest: I am a stander and a singer and an advocate of standing. I would rip up and bin the Taylor Report since it has long established that the recommendations were based on a conspiracy of lies by police officers, not only to Taylor but inquests and enquiries too. Nothing would make me happier than to rip all the seats out of the centre of the NS so we could all congregate together but (unlike the hoodied bullies up the road), we have to consider those sitting in the NS.

Many bought NS seats when the Amex was opened as they were the least expensive seats. Should we be telling those who have had their NS seats for a decade they have to budge out as the standing singers want to be there? Sorry, not in my book.

From my perspective in the NS, the stewards were a real pain trying to enforce sitting in the NS for the first 5 seasons or so. Eventually, it seems they quite rightly realised that most were standing and nobody was dying so they eased right off and credit to the stewards for doing so.

Sorry, I've wandered off the point which is that I don't want any fans "shuffled" who don't want to be shuffled.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Which unfortunately is the problem.

A declaration of interest: I am a stander and a singer and an advocate of standing. I would rip up and bin the Taylor Report since it has long established that the recommendations were based on a conspiracy of lies by police officers, not only to Taylor but inquests and enquiries too. Nothing would make me happier than to rip all the seats out of the centre of the NS so we could all congregate together but (unlike the hoodied bullies up the road), we have to consider those sitting in the NS.

Many bought NS seats when the Amex was opened as they were the least expensive seats. Should we be telling those who have had their NS seats for a decade they have to budge out as the standing singers want to be there? Sorry, not in my book.

From my perspective in the NS, the stewards were a real pain trying to enforce sitting in the NS for the first 5 seasons or so. Eventually, it seems they quite rightly realised that most were standing and nobody was dying so they eased right off and credit to the stewards for doing so.

Sorry, I've wandered off the point which is that I don't want any fans "shuffled" who don't want to be shuffled.

This is spot on. I think you have to let it happen naturally.

The only thing I'll add is that currently we have a bit of an unwritten rule that most of the North + NW is standing, but people nearer the front tend to sit.
If the whole lot had rails everyone would know exactly where they stand (excuse the pun).

At the moment it's ambiguous and open to interpretation. That's not cause a problem until now which is why people aren't clamouring for the rails to be installed. This might change in the future if rules on enforcement of sitting in seated areas are 'hardened'.

Your point about stewards being harsher in the first few, from memory I believe this was deliberate by the club because the safety certificate was easier to revoke in the first few years. Once that deadline passed they were more able to turn a blind eye to persistent standing.

Also the retirement of hebbard had a positive effect on fan-steward relations

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Seems in this thread that the main objection to safe standing is that people don't want to move seats at The Amex, rather than any actual reason to oppose the safe standing model itself.



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[Swansman]

Literally every single away game when we score.

So not very often?

 

[El Presidente]

As for it happening the Amex, I have never seen a hint from the club that it is going to happen.

TBF to the club Paul Barber did ask for views a few years ago and the response was fairly apathetic with hardly any replies.

Given that
(a) It’s going to cost Tony Bloom money
(b) Any changes would be on a 1:1 basis so no increased ground capacity and
(c) Highly unlikely that standing would be cheaper than present seats

…the club have not moved things forward, which makes some sense.

Given a choice I’d prefer to stand but each to their own.

 

[Silverhatch]

Two threads are being conflated here; a better atmosphere is one but the most pertinent argument is that between unsafe seating and safe rail standing. The safety & legislative factors have been conveniently ignored for years because the alternative is going to war with the most committed supporters. No one has the stomach for that so it seems inevitable that rail seating should become the norm and anyone that has a ticket in that section know the score - you stand in a section designed for standing

 

[Official Old Man]

Going off the original topic.
The 'safe standing' seats are lockable in the upright position thus there will be no seat at all.
https://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/videos
If we are to have safe standing, which I'm all for, the seat needs to be kept in use for half time.

 

[Hamilton]

I don't know if it improves the atmosphere or not. I do know that I prefer to stand while watching football and that I only get to do this at away games. I also know that at some point in my life I'll be old and doddery and I'll need to sit down during a game.

I seem to remember that when the Amex opened there was some mention made of there being a reasonable exception made for standing in the NS, so I don't think fans who have chosen the NS* should be surprised that it is being earmarked for standing (if it is.)

*especially given the history of the Goldstone north stand

 

[faoileán]

Which unfortunately is the problem.

A declaration of interest: I am a stander and a singer and an advocate of standing. I would rip up and bin the Taylor Report since it has long established that the recommendations were based on a conspiracy of lies by police officers, not only to Taylor but inquests and enquiries too. Nothing would make me happier than to rip all the seats out of the centre of the NS so we could all congregate together but (unlike the hoodied bullies up the road), we have to consider those sitting in the NS.

Many bought NS seats when the Amex was opened as they were the least expensive seats. Should we be telling those who have had their NS seats for a decade they have to budge out as the standing singers want to be there? Sorry, not in my book.

From my perspective in the NS, the stewards were a real pain trying to enforce sitting in the NS for the first 5 seasons or so. Eventually, it seems they quite rightly realised that most were standing and nobody was dying so they eased right off and credit to the stewards for doing so.

Sorry, I've wandered off the point which is that I don't want any fans "shuffled" who don't want to be shuffled.

Well it's quite simple then... no shuffling of seats to create a dedicated safe-standing section = no point in people constantly moaning about the lack lustre and disjointed atmosphere generated by the NS.

Personally I don't see any problem with asking people to move to an alternative but equivalent seat in another section if they prefer to sit and they can stay with their like-minded mates.

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

How many seats in the North Stand are sold on a match by match basis?

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[SAC]

Well it's quite simple then... no shuffling of seats to create a dedicated safe-standing section = no point in people constantly moaning about the lack lustre and disjointed atmosphere generated by the NS.

Personally I don't see any problem with asking people to move to an alternative but equivalent seat in another section if they prefer to sit and they can stay with their like-minded mates.

Completely agree but I think we are in a minority. People think that purchasing a season ticket guarantees them the same seat for as long as they renew.

 

[drew]

Which unfortunately is the problem.

A declaration of interest: I am a stander and a singer and an advocate of standing. I would rip up and bin the Taylor Report since it has long established that the recommendations were based on a conspiracy of lies by police officers, not only to Taylor but inquests and enquiries too. Nothing would make me happier than to rip all the seats out of the centre of the NS so we could all congregate together but (unlike the hoodied bullies up the road), we have to consider those sitting in the NS.

Many bought NS seats when the Amex was opened as they were the least expensive seats. Should we be telling those who have had their NS seats for a decade they have to budge out as the standing singers want to be there? Sorry, not in my book.

From my perspective in the NS, the stewards were a real pain trying to enforce sitting in the NS for the first 5 seasons or so. Eventually, it seems they quite rightly realised that most were standing and nobody was dying so they eased right off and credit to the stewards for doing so.

Sorry, I've wandered off the point which is that I don't want any fans "shuffled" who don't want to be shuffled.

Excellently put.

 

[drew]

Well it's quite simple then... no shuffling of seats to create a dedicated safe-standing section = no point in people constantly moaning about the lack lustre and disjointed atmosphere generated by the NS.

Personally I don't see any problem with asking people to move to an alternative but equivalent seat in another section if they prefer to sit and they can stay with their like-minded mates.

That's big of you. Everyone else move to accommodate you and your singing buddies as you're so much more important to the club than other fans.

 

[drew]

Completely agree but I think we are in a minority. People think that purchasing a season ticket guarantees them the same seat for as long as they renew.

Jesus, think it's you that has the sense of entitlement!! There are people that have been going for years, decades even, and they know the people around them and that's part of the enjoyment. There's another thread about people giving up their season ticket. Go and read it and see how much it means to people and how painful it is for some to have to give it up.

As an alternative, I think the south east is where a lot of match day tickets are sold (apologies if I'm wrong) so why not leave the north stand as all seater and put 500 rail seats in the south east and move you there. Lets see all those that claim to sing move there and if they fail to generate a collective atmosphere rip them out.

Here's another thought, perhaps the 'singing groups' in the north stand could just sing the same chant at the same time. That might help.

 

[e77]

TBF to the club Paul Barber did ask for views a few years ago and the response was fairly apathetic with hardly any replies.

Given that
(a) It’s going to cost Tony Bloom money
(b) Any changes would be on a 1:1 basis so no increased ground capacity and
(c) Highly unlikely that standing would be cheaper than present seats

…the club have not moved things forward, which makes some sense.

Given a choice I’d prefer to stand but each to their own.

I imagine the survey has helped inform the club's view.

I do 'get' people want to stand - I do it myself most of the time at away matches - but the Amex was built as an all seater stadium and if it changed to partially standing now it would probably require a merry go round of season ticket holders moving seats. As you say the conversion would cost money which would either need to be out of the club's coffers, although as a stadium improvement it would presumably at least be outside FFP, or the fans would pay through increased ticket prices. This would of course open another can of worms as then there would be an argument between all fans paying it or just those who want to use safe standing.

I am all for people having safe standing if they want it. I just don't see it happening at the Amex.

 

[ewe2]

Now if it wasn’t a one for one replacement,and extra capacity,a different view would have taken by the club .

 

[e77]

Which unfortunately is the problem.

A declaration of interest: I am a stander and a singer and an advocate of standing. I would rip up and bin the Taylor Report since it has long established that the recommendations were based on a conspiracy of lies by police officers, not only to Taylor but inquests and enquiries too. Nothing would make me happier than to rip all the seats out of the centre of the NS so we could all congregate together but (unlike the hoodied bullies up the road), we have to consider those sitting in the NS.

Many bought NS seats when the Amex was opened as they were the least expensive seats. Should we be telling those who have had their NS seats for a decade they have to budge out as the standing singers want to be there? Sorry, not in my book.

From my perspective in the NS, the stewards were a real pain trying to enforce sitting in the NS for the first 5 seasons or so. Eventually, it seems they quite rightly realised that most were standing and nobody was dying so they eased right off and credit to the stewards for doing so.

Sorry, I've wandered off the point which is that I don't want any fans "shuffled" who don't want to be shuffled.

In defence of the Taylor Report it did also get rid of fences round the pitch and health and safety in football grounds did need improving as a lot of them were falling apart.

 

[Wozza]

Now if it wasn’t a one for one replacement,and extra capacity,a different view would have taken by the club .

Not so sure about that. The intrastructure has its limits.

When its increased capacity the club has, in the main, focused on additional premium seats.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Not been to a game in the last 20 months so my opinion perhaps is not valid.

I think there should be a standing area only if it is at least 1.5 to 1 and that it should occupy half the NS be it the back half or left/right half . The current seat holders should be asked what they want to do , stand or potentially move and then get some definitive interactive debate going and evolve from there.

The club support is evolving and IMO getting younger and I suspect what they want is a lot different to what people wanted in 2011 and putting in more 'expensive' seats might not be the right answer.

 

[Dave the OAP]

What is this sitting business?

We don’t sit at the back few rows of the north stand….don’t be silly!