Safe standing

[atomised]

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Borussia Dortmund’s ‘Yellow Wall’ is all safe standing and by all accounts makes a big difference to atmosphere.

Obviously we wouldn't be able to replicate the scale seen at Dortmund, but looking at the density of supporters this image, we could increase the capacity of the North Stand and thus increase atmosphere.

But as has been said many times capacity at the amex would not increase with safe standing as the entrances, exits and concourse spaces are designed based on the current capacity and cant be altered without major remodelling.

 

[Driver8]

View attachment 80815

Borussia Dortmund’s ‘Yellow Wall’ is all safe standing and by all accounts makes a big difference to atmosphere.

Obviously we wouldn't be able to replicate the scale seen at Dortmund, but looking at the density of supporters this image, we could increase the capacity of the North Stand and thus increase atmosphere.

The capacity will not increase. The exits and concourse are designed for the current capacity.

 

[BeHereNow]

Who are the boring b*stards who voted "No thanks"?

Come on, I really want to hear from all 23. Why wouldn't you want it? And how would it effect you? Are you one of those people who say the North Stand should sing louder so you can then join in and make the atmosphere better?

 

[atomised]

Who are the boring b*stards who voted "No thanks"?

Come on, I really want to hear from all 23. Why wouldn't you want it? And how would it effect you? Are you one of those people who say the North Stand should sing louder so you can then join in and make the atmosphere better?

I will make it 24 just so i can be a boring b*stard and respond. I voted no thanks because the poll doesnt include the option i asked about earlier in the thread, that being dont really care either way. It wont be standing in the traditional sense, it wont really change anything.

 

[BeHereNow]

I think I might be giving the wrong impression on how I feel about standing in general, when I say safe standing is pointless. To clarify, I like standing, I prefer standing and if I could choose an option free from the current realities, I would like an old school, old fashioned terrace. However I know that ship has sailed and safe standing is the option on the table. For me, the cost of ripping up the seats to replace them with a diluted form of what I want doesn't really seem like a great use of money. Not only that, lots of people already stand and make noise in the NS and I don't think safe standing would necessarily make the atmosphere better.
The questions I would ask are;
Will safe standing be the same or better than a terrace? I don’t think it will.
Will safe standing improve the atmosphere? Given that people already stand and make noise in the NS, I don’t think it will make much if any difference.
Will it mean cheaper tickets? No.
Those three answers are why “safe standing” seems pointless to me.

Answers:

I don't safe standing will be as good as a terrace, but will be so much better than a seated stand.

It will most definitely improve the atmosphere.
This is because:
1. At the moment, you'll be lucky to get half the North Stand standing throughout most of the game.
2. Safe standing would mean all fans could stand for the whole game (without hassle from stewards) and making for a much better atmosphere as proved by Celtic. Celtic obviously had people standing before, but they have said that the safe standing section has made a huge difference to the atmosphere around the whole stadium. Why wouldn't that happen here?

It won't make tickets cheaper, but that doesn't bother me, or will it bother others who want safe standing. I would happily pay more to be in a standing area, as I enjoy it more than having to sit down. Tbh, I never understood why you should have a cheaper ticket for a terrace ticket anyway, you'll still watching the same game.

Hope that's cleared it up for you.

Where do you sit/stand at The Amex?

 

[BeHereNow]

I will make it 24 just so i can be a boring b*stard and respond. I voted no thanks because the poll doesnt include the option i asked about earlier in the thread, that being dont really care either way. It wont be standing in the traditional sense, it wont really change anything.

Cheers.

Oh, and it will change the atmosphere.

You're welcome.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

But as has been said many times capacity at the amex would not increase with safe standing as the entrances, exits and concourse spaces are designed based on the current capacity and cant be altered without major remodelling.

I would imagine that due to the constraints of the roof structure, which is Definately not for changing. Adding safe standing and Extending the concourses servicing the North stand and adding extra exits is the only option available to increasing capacity.

We are already at capacity in the Championship, so, if and when we gain promotion, the increased demand for tickets will surely make it too tempting not increase capacity, and this looks like the best or only option.

I wouldn't be surprised if the same happened in the South stand.

 

[Braggfan]

Answers:

I don't safe standing will be as good as a terrace, but will be so much better than a seated stand.

It will most definitely improve the atmosphere.
This is because:
1. At the moment, you'll be lucky to get half the North Stand standing throughout most of the game.
2. Safe standing would mean all fans could stand for the whole game (without hassle from stewards) and making for a much better atmosphere as proved by Celtic. Celtic obviously had people standing before, but they have said that the safe standing section has made a huge difference to the atmosphere around the whole stadium. Why wouldn't that happen here?

It won't make tickets cheaper, but that doesn't bother me, or will it bother others who want safe standing. I would happily pay more to be in a standing area, as I enjoy it more than having to sit down. Tbh, I never understood why you should have a cheaper ticket for a terrace ticket anyway, you'll still watching the same game.

Hope that's cleared it up for you.

Where do you sit/stand at The Amex?

You are basing your two points there solely on the basis that standing=better atmosphere, and I'm not sure that’s necessarily a given. I think standing on terraces generates a better atmosphere, but I’m not convinced safe standing would generate anything better than what we have at the moment. Although it is really interesting that Celtic say there has been a huge improvement in atmosphere.

Like I say I wouldn’t be against safe standing being introduced but I wouldn’t actively support the cause either because I’m not convinced it’s better.

Traditionally you paid less for standing because it’s less comfortable, you were less likely to be under cover and arguably on a terrace you might not actually have a great view for all of the game (part of the charm). I guess most of that probably isn’t relevant in the new stadium though.

Generally I sit/stand in the North. Occasionally the West if I can blag my Dad’s West Stand ticket. Better view in the West but I prefer the North.

 

[Triggaaar]

The questions I would ask are;
Will safe standing be the same or better than a terrace? I don’t think it will.

True, but I don't see how that's relevant.

Will safe standing improve the atmosphere? Given that people already stand and make noise in the NS, I don’t think it will make much if any difference.

I disagree, I think it would.

No convinced about the last bit, Away fans (either us or our visitors) make more noise than the home sections because they are more pissed

Sitting down makes you relax more, standing is more likely to get people energised and involved IMO.

 

[Braggfan]

True, but I don't see how that's relevant.
I disagree, I think it would.

Sitting down makes you relax more, standing is more likely to get people energised and involved IMO.

To be fair that is probably the crux of the argument, some think it will improve the atmosphere, others like myself don't think safe standing will make much difference. I think from my point of view, I find it hard to get excited about something that seems like a watered down version of something I like.

 

[Triggaaar]

I think from my point of view, I find it hard to get excited about something that seems like a watered down version of something I like.

Forget the thing you like, comparing it to that is a distraction.

Why is it that people stand at away games? I thought drunk people like to sit down, not stand. Standing makes you feel more awake/energetic and also gives a better posture for singing - and you can read that as volume, rather than quality

 

[Pavilionaire]

I'm in favour of giving the fans what they want if it doesn't mean others lose out, so if enough fans want safe standing that's fine by me.

In my ideal world the whole of the North Stand would be safe standing; I think this makes for a better atmosphere generally.

Moreover, I'm mindful how the referee caved in and red-carded that lad from QPR in the face of a vociferous reaction from the crowd. Just one or two incidents like that in the Prem could be the difference between relegation and survival, so the more of a fortress the Amex is the better chance we have of survival in the Prem, assuming we get there.

 

[Braggfan]

Forget the thing you like, comparing it to that is a distraction.

You're probably right, I did say I found it hard though

 

[BeHereNow]

You are basing your two points there solely on the basis that standing=better atmosphere, and I'm not sure that’s necessarily a given. I think standing on terraces generates a better atmosphere, but I’m not convinced safe standing would generate anything better than what we have at the moment. Although it is really interesting that Celtic say there has been a huge improvement in atmosphere.

Like I say I wouldn’t be against safe standing being introduced but I wouldn’t actively support the cause either because I’m not convinced it’s better.

Traditionally you paid less for standing because it’s less comfortable, you were less likely to be under cover and arguably on a terrace you might not actually have a great view for all of the game (part of the charm). I guess most of that probably isn’t relevant in the new stadium though.

Generally I sit/stand in the North. Occasionally the West if I can blag my Dad’s West Stand ticket. Better view in the West but I prefer the North.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, that's exactly what I base my answers on. I think most people would agree aswell. I'd say the atmosphere is noticeably better in the North when everyone is standing, and I really mean that. Trouble is, that's not really allowed, and people normally revert back to sitting, and I think that isn't because they want to, but because they have to.

Also, there's another thing that wouldn't happen if we had safe standing. We wouldn't have people falling over the seats infront during goal ccelebrations. I have seen it many times, and people probably have a good laugh about it, but I could really see it causes a bad accident at some stage. I therefor believe safe standing is more safe than seating areas (when it comes to standing). I have also read the same from a lot other of other club's fans.

I'm one of these people who, wrongly or rightly, believe that the crowd can really make a difference. So any chance of us being able to increase the atmosphere, I think we should take it.

The reason I felt the need to post was that I feel there are a lot of say, West/East Stand fans voting on this even though it won't really effect them. Maybe a poll only directed at North Standers would've been better. I also think that maybe that's where the club has gone wrong regarding the safe standing surveys.

Fair enough if you don't believe the atmosphere would increase with safe standing, but I think we should atleast try it if demand is there. Say it did improve the noise levels like at Celtic, surely it would be worth it?

 

[BeHereNow]

I'm in favour of giving the fans what they want if it doesn't mean others lose out, so if enough fans want safe standing that's fine by me.

In my ideal world the whole of the North Stand would be safe standing; I think this makes for a better atmosphere generally.

Moreover, I'm mindful how the referee caved in and red-carded that lad from QPR in the face of a vociferous reaction from the crowd. Just one or two incidents like that in the Prem could be the difference between relegation and survival, so the more of a fortress the Amex is the better chance we have of survival in the Prem, assuming we get there.

Can't like your post for some reason. So I'll just say "exactly".

 

[Bob'n'weave]

But as has been said many times capacity at the amex would not increase with safe standing as the entrances, exits and concourse spaces are designed based on the current capacity and cant be altered without major remodelling.

Not so. SS options are varied one person per seat/spac, 1and a half or two per seat space ,which may emerge as options for the Amex. An increase in capacity would not require re modelling anything. I am sure that Exits, egress, concourses, stairs etc are built to fire regs not numbers of people, although it is a factor. The North stand could go 70% SS with normal seats for those who want them, with any of the above options for SS. If numbers were a problem we could just sick with one person per SS seat/space.

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes, that's exactly what I base my answers on. I think most people would agree aswell. I'd say the atmosphere is noticeably better in the North when everyone is standing, and I really mean that. Trouble is, that's not really allowed, and people normally revert back to sitting, and I think that isn't because they want to, but because they have to.

Definitely.

I'm one of these people who, wrongly or rightly, believe that the crowd can really make a difference. So any chance of us being able to increase the atmosphere, I think we should take it.

Sorry, are there people that think a crowd can't make a difference? It definitely makes a difference, and like you say, we should take any advantage we can get.

The reason I felt the need to post was that I feel there are a lot of say, West/East Stand fans voting on this even though it won't really effect them.

It will affect them, they're just to daft to realise. If there's a better atmosphere at the ground, that affects us all. I wouldn't be in the North stand anyway.

 

[BeHereNow]

It will happen slowly at BHA and other clubs, just a case of when and where IMHO. At the moment there are sections of the NS that are allowed to stand, and at away games (including ours, and Fulham was a classic!), a lot of away fans stand anyway. This is a nonsense as standing is far more dangerous in normal seats than SS or rail seating systems. Also very annoying for home fans who are told to sit when the away fans stand, creating a better noise/atmosphere.
The only concern as far as I understand it, is blocking the view of those who are seated. In the NS for instance you could have a curved D shaped section along the front rows/up the middle for normal seats with both the left, right and middle/back for SS. Everyone is happy. At the moment, allowing fans to stand (or rather, tolerating it as you can't stop 1000's of people from doing it in away sections) is probably in complete breach of a clubs H&S policy - which is probably also an insurance issue for the club, a real mine field. SS is a no brainer.
As the legislation changes we will see more clubs introduce the SS system, as Celtic has done, most successfully. You can't have clubs moaning about creating an atmosphere, handing out 'clappers' etc as a substitute for the real thing, especially when all the away fans are standing.
Hopefully common sense will prevail.

Anyone against a safe standing area needs to read this.

 

[BeHereNow]

Definitely.

Sorry, are there people that think a crowd can't make a difference? It definitely makes a difference, and like you say, we should take any advantage we can get.

It will affect them, they're just to daft to realise. If there's a better atmosphere at the ground, that affects us all. I wouldn't be in the North stand anyway.

Agree with you on that last bit.

I've actually seen a couple of posters on NSC who think the crowd don't make a difference!

 

[Driver8]

Not so. SS options are varied one person per seat/spac, 1and a half or two per seat space ,which may emerge as options for the Amex. An increase in capacity would not require re modelling anything. I am sure that Exits, egress, concourses, stairs etc are built to fire regs not numbers of people, although it is a factor. The North stand could go 70% SS with normal seats for those who want them, with any of the above options for SS. If numbers were a problem we could just sick with one person per SS seat/space.

Paul Barber disagrees with you. He has said several times that there would be no increase in capacity due to the design of the exits/concourses.