Safe standing

[Dirk Lehmann's Python]

It wouldn't increase capacity(Most already knew this)

It sounds as if the 2 most likely positions would be:
North West corner
OR
Back # rows of the north stand (depending on demand)

Cost is approx £160 per a seat to change.

Possible age restriction OR junior section.

Safe Standing section would more than likely be ST only

So no then. Fairly obvious stuff.

Good of the club to do it but sounds like nothing more than a tick box exercise. At least the whingers can't say they weren't given a choice to put their views across.

Hopefully the Gov't see sense.

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[Dirk Lehmann's Python]

Not true, Barber said most clubs leave the seats unlocked to allow people to sit if they chose, only locking them in the down position when required. I would guess this is regarding most clubs that still have a 1-1 seat/stand ratio.

On the separate note, I was disappointed at the lack of people that turned up tonight. So many people say they're keen and support the idea but only 20/30 of us actually showed up.. I appreciate not everyone can make it on Thursday night but I expected much more than what turned up...

It was 'sold' as a debate. What's to debate if we all want it?

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[bn1&bn3 Albion]

It was 'sold' as a debate. What's to debate if we all want it?

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I went for the sole purpose to show I support it. 25 people turning up or 200 people turning up, which do you think would motivate the club more to spend the extra time and money required to go ahead with it?

 

[amexer]

Cant see club going ahead with this if only 25 felt strong enough to attend

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

Cant see club going ahead with this if only 25 felt strong enough to attend

I still believe it will happen, higher numbers would have certainly helped though. The club will be sending out a survey soon to all ST holders about safe standing and their views on it.

 

[drew]

Well...you're not really selling it too me Drew.

Seriously though, if there was a return to ACTUAL terracing, then I'd be all over that like white on rice. My WSU seat would be abandoned, and I'd go wherever in the stadium granted us that glorious facility. But safe standing ? Naah. You can keep it.

Don't worry, I'm not trying to. I take the view that if the law changes and the club want to provide this for what I think will be a minority then that minority can pay for the conversion costs in their ticket prices rather than mine. I'm happy with my padded seat right next to an aisle in WSU. I think you mentioned that it is some sort of nostalgic trip for some older fans and I agree.

 

[Driver8]

It was 'sold' as a debate. What's to debate if we all want it?

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Do we all want it? Can't say I'm bothered as I won't be using it and I'd rather we saved the money tbh. There doesn't seem to be much appetite for it from many others either.

 

[Bozza]

I still believe it will happen, higher numbers would have certainly helped though. The club will be sending out a survey soon to all ST holders about safe standing and their views on it.

I hope someone who actually knows about constructing a survey puts this together, rather than the task being lobbed at someone or other in the office, as the results could and probably would differ significantly.

This thread has seen a lot of people express an opinion that could be taken as being against the return of standing when, really, they are quite happy for others to stand if they want to, so long as they can keep their own seat. A well-constructed survey will be able to draw this out.

 

[studio150]

Not true, Barber said most clubs leave the seats unlocked to allow people to sit if they chose, only locking them in the down position when required. I would guess this is regarding most clubs that still have a 1-1 seat/stand ratio.

On the separate note, I was disappointed at the lack of people that turned up tonight. So many people say they're keen and support the idea but only 20/30 of us actually showed up.. I appreciate not everyone can make it on Thursday night but I expected much more than what turned up...

As well as the Thursday night issue it could be done to other factors such as:

1)Support the issue but if it comes it comes if not, no worries
2) Support the issue but will be retaining existing seat
3) A view that the club will do whatever they want
4) A view that as they oppose the idea, they would be shouted down

I would be more interested in the forthcoming survey results and the balance of Barbers inbox on this issue.


Out of interest if brought in at the Albion would the replacement seats be of a lower quality and was any mention made that if they were the potential impact on any all seat events going forward,

 

[Billy the Fish]

People are looking at this from the wrong angle. It's not a question of whether you would personally use the facility if it's allowed, it's whether you think the club should install it for those who do went the facility.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

On the separate note, I was disappointed at the lack of people that turned up tonight. So many people say they're keen and support the idea but only 20/30 of us actually showed up.. I appreciate not everyone can make it on Thursday night but I expected much more than what turned up...

Sorry but whilst I think Safe Standing is a good option, and I'd tick a box voting for it, I really don't feel strongly enough about it to haul myself over to the Amex, and if at the end of the day it doesn't happen, then que sera sera.

 

[amexer]

Whilst of no interest to me, having watched football in Germany think it would add to atmosphere. However with only 25 turning up will there be the demand at the Amex

 

[JonnyComeEarly]

I grew up standing on the goldstone north stand. Absolutely incredible feeling

The lack of terraces now has ripped the heart out of the attending experience. The taylor feport has recently been found to be absolute b0ll0x in terms of the terracing so im with Easy10. Why cant we just take out all the north stand seats and have 20 or so crush barriers. Easy, simple, cheap and flipping awesome for the fans.

No one is anymore at risk that the rugby fans PACKED on terraces each week. There would never be another hillsboro due to terraces thankfully but In my opinion proper terraces are the way forward

That said safe standing would be a bloody fantastic stepping stone and i really hope we lead the way. Id give up my west stand tkt and move to safe standing wherever it was

 

[Dirk Lehmann's Python]

I went for the sole purpose to show I support it. 25 people turning up or 200 people turning up, which do you think would motivate the club more to spend the extra time and money required to go ahead with it?

Fair point. Suppose I'm a bit lazy but i suspect a majority are absolutely pro letting those who wanted to stand do it in a safe manner, as long as nobody is forced into it and it is just one section of the ground.

But I'm not sure the turnout at a 'debate' on a Thursday night at an out of town venue is particularly representative who is for the idea, it will just show those passionately for it.

As I say, i suspect a majority are happy with it as long as nobody is forced out of their padded seat they have enjoyed for the last 5 years.

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[The Sock of Poskett]

I'm entirely in favour of safe standing but the big question is: can the club provide it in a way which actually DOES improve the atmosphere?

Clearly the most effective solution - which won't happen - is to convert the whole North to safe standing, with the central block designated a dedicated singing section, encouraging all of the most vocal to move there. Even in an ideal world you wouldn't get lots of people willingly moving from their favoured place to benefit the atmosphere. Some, maybe, but not enough.

So, of the two more likely mooted options:
1 A section in the north-west corner - OK so far as it goes, but unlikely to solve the problem of multiple songs across the north, assuming that plenty of singers in the north-east and north-central want to stay where they are.
2 Back xx rows of the north - slightly more likely to work but again with standing fans spread across the back of the stand, the multiple songs problem will still be there, and you won't get the concentration of noise to improve the atmosphere.

Before you ask, I'm in north central, love my seat/standing place and the people around, so am unlikely to move to the north-west corner. We're already standing 'relatively' safely, and no-one's fallen over a seat when we score.

I still hope safe standing is given a go, but I have my doubts that the proposed approaches will REALLY make a massive difference.

 

[Jim in the West]

I'm entirely in favour of safe standing but the big question is: can the club provide it in a way which actually DOES improve the atmosphere?

Clearly the most effective solution - which won't happen - is to convert the whole North to safe standing, with the central block designated a dedicated singing section, encouraging all of the most vocal to move there. Even in an ideal world you wouldn't get lots of people willingly moving from their favoured place to benefit the atmosphere. Some, maybe, but not enough.

So, of the two more likely mooted options:
1 A section in the north-west corner - OK so far as it goes, but unlikely to solve the problem of multiple songs across the north, assuming that plenty of singers in the north-east and north-central want to stay where they are.
2 Back xx rows of the north - slightly more likely to work but again with standing fans spread across the back of the stand, the multiple songs problem will still be there, and you won't get the concentration of noise to improve the atmosphere.

Before you ask, I'm in north central, love my seat/standing place and the people around, so am unlikely to move to the north-west corner. We're already standing 'relatively' safely, and no-one's fallen over a seat when we score.

I still hope safe standing is given a go, but I have my doubts that the proposed approaches will REALLY make a massive difference.

Agree with that - I'm also in the North - slightly to the right of the goal as you look from the pitch, and about 10 rows back. It's a great seat. Most of the back ten rows or so of the North already stand, and everywhere around me stands when the play comes down our end (esp when Knockout has the ball!). I'm very happy with my seat, and would be VERY unhappy if I have to move for the seat to be converted into a standing area. As my wife or daughter quite often attend with me, the current scenario is perfect - decent atmosphere, and you can stand or sit pretty much as you chose.

If this is just an attempt to improve the atmosphere, there are other ways of doing so. Perhaps those in the West Stand (who seem so keen on mucking people around in the North) could do a bit of singing?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Having just listened to the Safe Standing forum, I'm left wondering whether everyone is missing the main point about standing at football - it's a way of ensuring that you can turn up at a game and get together with your mates to enjoy the game. And ... it's a slightly different group of mates who show up each week.

I'm not convinced that retaining a system of allocated spaces will deliver what we are looking for. An important part of the experience that we are trying to re-introduce is surely Stand Where You Want. Or am I wrong?

 

[Notters]

Having just listened to the Safe Standing forum, I'm left wondering whether everyone is missing the main point about standing at football - it's a way of ensuring that you can turn up at a game and get together with your mates to enjoy the game. And ... it's a slightly different group of mates who show up each week.

I'm not convinced that retaining a system of allocated spaces will deliver what we are looking for. An important part of the experience that we are trying to re-introduce is surely Stand Where You Want. Or am I wrong?

Agreed, and probably more importantly, particularly for young 'uns, meeting new mates. Which is much harder these days!

 

[Easy 10]

Having just listened to the Safe Standing forum, I'm left wondering whether everyone is missing the main point about standing at football - it's a way of ensuring that you can turn up at a game and get together with your mates to enjoy the game. And ... it's a slightly different group of mates who show up each week.

I'm not convinced that retaining a system of allocated spaces will deliver what we are looking for. An important part of the experience that we are trying to re-introduce is surely Stand Where You Want. Or am I wrong?

Exactly, and I think this is a point not realised by some. You're not going to be able to just rock up and stand where you want. You're still going to be allocated your space, in front of your folded-up seat. Which you already have right now anyway. So the only difference is (a) you won't be badgered by stewards or anyone else for standing, and (b) you'll have a rail to lean on.

Is it REALLY worth it ?

 

[Scotty Mac]

Not sure how you have come to that conclusion, every team in Germany and Celtic who have switched to the one to one safe standing model have said it HAS increased atmosphere, in many cases, significantly.

How many clubs in Germany have the safe standing we are talking about though, ie the rail seating type?

Off the top off my head, I've done games in Germany at 1860 Munich, Dortmund, St Pauli, Essen, Bochum, Mainz's old stadium and Aachen.

All of those grounds have traditional terraces, not the rail seating we are talking about.

Rail seating just allows people to stand in a row in front of a seat. Which is pretty much what happens in the North now