[Football] Safe standing in the North stand next season ....?

[portlock seagull]

Spending money on rails for safe standing = we've less chance of qualifying for European football ? Good point.

Have corrected for you

 

[Baldseagull]

My only experience of safe standing was away at Chelsea, I loved it.
The steepness of it meant when I got tired of standing, I could sit and see over the top of the blokes in front of me who were still standing. Introducing safe standing in the North Stand could possibly result in more people actually sitting.
I would suggest the major reason PBOBE is not keen, is the return on investment not being quick enough, if there is one at all.

 

[Ike and Tina Burner]

Why? No need to remove the seat - can't they just leave it leave it folded up? Can always be used for a rest at half time! The cost would be putting in the rails - and yes, I'm sure the questionnaire was rigged to get the required answer!

Spurs, Chelsea, Wembley and probably every team with safe standing still have seats in the designated area

 

[Is it PotG?]

Can we have a 'safe singing' area in the Norff?

You know, you can sing your own song at your own speed.....oh hold on.

 

[GT49er]

That isn't what safe standing is. You'd be installing rail seating where the seats can be in a locked position. If you are selling standing only tickets for an area then the seats are locked so no one can sit down however the ratio is that for every current two seats you'd sell three standing tickets. The issue that the club alluded to is that the escape routes/concourses etc are for the numbers we have now in the North Stand. Now I don't know if they can get that changed or if they have to make the aisles wider or whatever. The point is, if you sell the area as safe standing then no one sits.

If the ratio is three standing places for two seats, then the argument that there's nothing in it (financially) for the club looks a bit bollocksy.

 

[GT49er]

Spurs, Chelsea, Wembley and probably every team with safe standing still have seats in the designated area

Exactly - and no reason to lock them. No reason punters can't have a rest at half time, or before the match starts - where's the problem that some people seem to think exists (although they have put forward no cogent case for one)?

 

[PascalGroß Tips]

Exactly - and no reason to lock them. No reason punters can't have a rest at half time, or before the match starts - where's the problem that some people seem to think exists (although they have put forward no cogent case for one)?

Exactly … I’ve given up waiting for someone to put forward that case.

 

[drew]

If the ratio is three standing places for two seats, then the argument that there's nothing in it (financially) for the club looks a bit bollocksy.

There's the installation costs, changing the safety certs etc and also, do you charge people to stand the same price as to sit? If you charge the same, then it does look a no brainer (notwithstanding getting the safety cert changed) but I'm guessing those standing will be looking for a cheaper price.

 

[GT49er]

There's the installation costs, changing the safety certs etc and also, do you charge people to stand the same price as to sit? If you charge the same, then it does look a no brainer (notwithstanding getting the safety cert changed) but I'm guessing those standing will be looking for a cheaper price.

Why? Safe standing is what they want; they stand now, but would probably appreciate a rail to lean on! What we do know, is that they don't want (quite rightly) to be forced to pay extra to stand.

 

[drew]

Why? Safe standing is what they want; they stand now, but would probably appreciate a rail to lean on! What we do know, is that they don't want (quite rightly) to be forced to pay extra to stand.

They stand now and, as far as I'm aware, there haven't been any reported injuries! I'd like a cup holder or a USB port at my seat but not sure the club will go with that.

 

[GT49er]

They stand now and, as far as I'm aware, there haven't been any reported injuries! I'd like a cup holder or a USB port at my seat but not sure the club will go with that.

We drove cars without seat belts for years, and most of us survived. That wasn't a reason for not improving safety by introducing seat belts.

Safe standing is, would, without any reservations, be safer than standing behind a shin high 'barrier' if you get accidentally get pushed or stumble forward. OK, nobody's been killed or maimed ......................... YET. As far as I know anyway, but that's not a valid argument for not introducing it.
PBOBE has made it pretty clear he doesn't like fans standing, anywhere, any time, period. He just can't stop the North Stand standing, but you can bet your season ticket he would if he could - and as for condoning it by putting in safe standing? - he'd rather allow bottle tops and flasks, and that ain't happening anytime soon! TBH, I think he'd probably rather have his teeth extracted one by one without anaesthetic than have people standing up in his nice all-seater stadium!

 

[kevo]

Not everyone. I’m an East Stander so nowadays it’s no longer for me (last night was fine but I needed half hour in a hot bath when I got in!)

However I’ll always vote for it 100% as I know a lot of people that want it.

Same here. It seems obvious PB doesn't want it.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Spending money on rails for safe standing = we'll never qualify for European football ? How interesting ...

I'll pick this one of you're many posts in this thread. Exactly what benefit to the club is there in ripping out perfectly good seats and replacing them with safe standing ? The club will need to 'invest' several hundred thousand pounds and IIRC PBOBE in the past has suggested that safe standing takes more seats than normal seats to there would be less ticket income. Unlike many other clubs putting it in we are already at full capacity most matches to why just throw away money for no return ?

 

[PascalGroß Tips]

I'll pick this one of you're many posts in this thread. Exactly what benefit to the club is there in ripping out perfectly good seats and replacing them with safe standing ? The club will need to 'invest' several hundred thousand pounds and IIRC PBOBE in the past has suggested that safe standing takes more seats than normal seats to there would be less ticket income. Unlike many other clubs putting it in we are already at full capacity most matches to why just throw away money for no return ?

I'm not sure what evidence there is to suggest that safe/rail seating means reduced capacity. If anything, it 'can' be possible to increase capacity.

Can safe standing increase capacity?

See my earlier post above. You don’t need to rip the existing seats out. You can add rails to existing seating.

And capacity certainly wouldn’t be reduced. Where is your evidence to say that would be the case. We are an outlier in the Premier League ( see one of my other ‘many’ posts with current status of all PL and other clubs). If I was a betting man - I’m not - I’d bet on us changing direction on this and introducing them at some point.

 

[schmunk]

There's the installation costs, changing the safety certs etc and also, do you charge people to stand the same price as to sit? If you charge the same, then it does look a no brainer (notwithstanding getting the safety cert changed) but I'm guessing those standing will be looking for a cheaper price.

Tickets in the North stand are already at a cheaper price than the rest of the ground.

 

[drew]

Tickets in the North stand are already at a cheaper price than the rest of the ground.

But let's say the back 6 rows of the North were safe standing rail seats and tickets were sold on the basis that you have to stand (ie they sold 3 tickets for every two seats with the seats locked in the up position), would those in that area be happy paying the same as those in the front 20 rows (who'll probably stand anyway)? Another way to look at it is if those that do sit have to pay a little extra to cover the cost of installation of rail seats for others.

I'm not against safe standing in the North Stand but I don't see why they need to change a system that currently works. I also don't think people that have had a season ticket for the time we have been at the Amex should be forced to move. That lot up the road did that to accommodate their 'ultras' and were roundly criticised on here.

 

[PascalGroß Tips]

But let's say the back 6 rows of the North were safe standing rail seats and tickets were sold on the basis that you have to stand (ie they sold 3 tickets for every two seats with the seats locked in the up position), would those in that area be happy paying the same as those in the front 20 rows (who'll probably stand anyway)? Another way to look at it is if those that do sit have to pay a little extra to cover the cost of installation of rail seats for others.

I'm not against safe standing in the North Stand but I don't see why they need to change a system that currently works. I also don't think people that have had a season ticket for the time we have been at the Amex should be forced to move. That lot up the road did that to accommodate their 'ultras' and were roundly criticised on here.

This will be my last comment as I've already posted too many it seems.

The screenshots below are from an article on Sky Sports website. It will hopefully help to clarify some of the misconceptions re 'safe' standing. But to answer some of your specific points:

1. You won't be made to stand. Clubs are introducing these in areas where people already stand.
2. They won't be sold on the basis of 3 tickets for every 2 seats. The exact same allocated seats will be available. They will just have a rail in front of them.
3. Seats will not be locked in the up position.
4. Ticket prices will be same as you still have the same seat you had before the rail was put in place.
5. People that currently stand (in the North Stand for example) already pay the same as those that also sit in the same stand - they just choose to stand in front of their seat.
6. The 'need to change' is to make it safer for those that do stand (when currently they shouldn't be standing but it is 'tolerated').

Screenshots above confirms allocated space (numbered ticket) behind a barrier/rail in areas of persistent standing. Seats cannot be locked in any position.

Screenshot above highlights the safety issue of toppling over the person in front. Some on here have suggested this has never happened. Well it has for me - twice. On one of those I did crash my shin into the seat in front and had blood running down my leg resulting in a lovely scab. It bloody well hurt.

This type of rail seating doesn't have to be for the whole of a stand. There are plenty of examples where just sections of a stand has the safety rail. Those areas where everyone stands anyway. Just because some might not think they need the rail in front of them, there will be plenty that would appreciate it. It could be introduced in a small controlled way in the North Stand but also part of the South Stand for away supporters. Spurs have plenty of safe standing for away fans but also have a designated area for away fans that want to sit, which is a great idea IMO.

Anyway, that's more than enough from me on the subject ...

 

[drew]

This will be my last comment as I've already posted too many it seems.

The screenshots below are from an article on Sky Sports website. It will hopefully help to clarify some of the misconceptions re 'safe' standing. But to answer some of your specific points:

1. You won't be made to stand. Clubs are introducing these in areas where people already stand.
2. They won't be sold on the basis of 3 tickets for every 2 seats. The exact same allocated seats will be available. They will just have a rail in front of them.
3. Seats will not be locked in the up position.
4. Ticket prices will be same as you still have the same seat you had before the rail was put in place.
5. People that currently stand (in the North Stand for example) already pay the same as those that also sit in the same stand - they just choose to stand in front of their seat.
6. The 'need to change' is to make it safer for those that do stand (when currently they shouldn't be standing but it is 'tolerated').

View attachment 179940

View attachment 179941

Screenshots above confirms allocated space (numbered ticket) behind a barrier/rail in areas of persistent standing. Seats cannot be locked in any position.

View attachment 179942

Screenshot above highlights the safety issue of toppling over the person in front. Some on here have suggested this has never happened. Well it has for me - twice. On one of those I did crash my shin into the seat in front and had blood running down my leg resulting in a lovely scab. It bloody well hurt.

This type of rail seating doesn't have to be for the whole of a stand. There are plenty of examples where just sections of a stand has the safety rail. Those areas where everyone stands anyway. Just because some might not think they need the rail in front of them, there will be plenty that would appreciate it. It could be introduced in a small controlled way in the North Stand but also part of the South Stand for away supporters. Spurs have plenty of safe standing for away fans but also have a designated area for away fans that want to sit, which is a great idea IMO.

View attachment 179943

Anyway, that's more than enough from me on the subject ...

That's now. I suppose the question is are the seats installed at some premier league grounds lockable? If so, why install lockable seats if the intention isn't, at some stage in the future, to use them. It may well be that clubs are anticipating a change in the law to allow standing .

 

[GT49er]

That's now. I suppose the question is are the seats installed at some premier league grounds lockable? If so, why install lockable seats if the intention isn't, at some stage in the future, to use them. It may well be that clubs are anticipating a change in the law to allow standing .

Can you give just one possible reason why any club would want to go to the expense of locking the seats - what possible benefit is there? None!

 

[PascalGroß Tips]

That's now. I suppose the question is are the seats installed at some premier league grounds lockable? If so, why install lockable seats if the intention isn't, at some stage in the future, to use them. It may well be that clubs are anticipating a change in the law to allow standing .

To answer your specific question ...

Not as far as I'm aware. The rules/criteria are led by the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and clubs have to abide by strict criteria. It's not the clubs deciding how they want to use them.

As mentioned in one of the above screenshots, this includes the fact that seats cannot be locked in the up or down position. So the seats are as they are now.