[Albion] Safe Standing at the AMEX

[Wrong-Direction]

How nice. Being older isn't a disability you idiot.

Well it is but ok

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This.

I'll NEVER get my head round why its deemed perfectly safe to stand on a terrace if you are watching a club playing in L1 or L2 (or below), but not if you're watching a club playing in the Championship or PL.

Some clubs higher up will have a greater number of fans attending of course, but its not all that unusual to see PACKED terraces in the lower leagues. Just have a look when the Playoffs come round. And how many incidents of injury or death have been recorded in this country due to lower league terracing, considering the hundreds, thousands, millions of fans who attend those games year in, year out ?

The governments stance on this is an utter nonsense.

Quite. It is Mrs Thatcher's lasting legacy, and is there to show the world the Britain will not tolerate hooliganism, by allowing only middle class people into the stadium (working class people stand because they don't know how to use seats, and naturally will stop attending and dragging Britain's name through the mud as the dirty man of Europe if seats are put in). It is just like when spitoons were removed from public houses - with nowhere to spit the working classes were forced to drink at home.

Sometimes you can only conclude that a majority of MPs have never been behind the goal at the football. The patent absurdity of seats in which nobody sits soon hits home if you actually see it, or be in it. It is as silly as making everyone wear a waterproof hat, or even an open umbrella, on the tube, or wear their underpants in the bath.

I say this as someone who must have a seat, and would always make sure I could have one (my back has all the hard-wearing quality of a cardboard bicycle tyre).

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Well it is but ok

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

Well you better hope your days end early with a nasty accident with a toilet then because if you get old not only will you be physically disabled ( as you've stated ) but you will carry your mental disability from youth to old age - a double whammy.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Well you better hope your days end early with a nasty accident with a toilet then because if you get old not only will you be physically disabled ( as you've stated ) but you will carry your mental disability from youth to old age - a double whammy.

Wow

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

There is. I am not disabled but I cannot stand throughout a match. I have sent the club a copy of my consultant's letter to show them my difficulties so I now get a seat with the ambulant disabled.

Unless you would like all us oldies euthanised at 65.

Don't put ideas into [MENTION=27125]Wrong-Direction[/MENTION]s head

 

[The Large One]

What i just can't get my head around is that "Unsafe standing " at every away end in the Country is being allowed, by the turning of a blind eye. The government should actually insist on "Safe standing ".....as a matter of urgency for the away end at alseater stadiums,on the grounds of "Health and Safety " !!!

They're not turning a blind eye.

It's just that, as any safety officer will tell you, getting everyone to sit down is basically impossible and impractical. As soon as some perpetrators are carted out - just for standing - it creates further problems down the line.

The SGSA's answer is to enforce compulsory sitting, which would be neither a healthy nor safe to do.

 

[BensGrandad]

Standing in an all seater football stadium is against the Ground Regulations and therefore the Safety Certificate - it's not against the law. You can't be arrested for it. The worse that can happen is the club will have you removed and possibly revoke their invite for you to attend matches.

So the matter should be taken up with the local council who issue the safety certificate, Lancashire council could say ok and Hampshire no way ludicrous situation.

 

[The Large One]

So the matter should be taken up with the local council who issue the safety certificate, Lancashire council could say ok and Hampshire no way ludicrous situation.

Nope. The Secretary of State has the power to intervene, effectively holding the trump card over all considerations.

 

[BensGrandad]

So it is in effect a law of the land in everything bar name.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Don't put ideas into [MENTION=27125]Wrong-Direction[/MENTION]s head

I don't need to.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

What i just can't get my head around is that "Unsafe standing " at every away end in the Country is being allowed, by the turning of a blind eye. The government should actually insist on "Safe standing ".....as a matter of urgency for the away end at alseater stadiums,on the grounds of "Health and Safety " !!!

This. But it is worse. People stand at every game. They stand and block the view of people who want to sit. This happens in blocks where people can't move elsewhere because they have a season ticket. And yet from time to time clubs get fined for this 'illegal' standing. We were fined when our supporters refused to sit down at Derby more than 10 years ago (I was there). But hardly ever. Any recent fines for standing? No. It is like occasionally fining drivers for speeding but normally not bothering. WTF?

Yet clubs below the second tier have old school unsafe standing, while in our tier all grounds have seats (try ripping them out and see what would happen) and even more unsafe standing, and no scope to move on match day. It is completely illogical, and completely shit house. And totally British. Thatcher's legacy, honoured by Blair. And so on. Let's privatise the NHS while we're at it

 

[The Large One]

So it is in effect a law of the land in everything bar name.

Nearly. You can't be arrested for standing.

 

[BensGrandad]

Nearly. You can't be arrested for standing.

You are being pedantic as to all intents and purpose as regards the clubs it is law

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

You are being pedantic as to all intents and purpose as regards the clubs it is law

Can you go against your principles and talk to me as well

 

[LamieRobertson]

You are being pedantic as to all intents and purpose as regards the clubs it is law

Maybe he was being a tad humorous? ..It just might have floated past you

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Maybe he was being a tad humorous? ..It just might have floated past you

Had supper yet

 

[LamieRobertson]

Had supper yet

I was thinking of some baked beans but don't tell Pascals Dad when u see him

 

[The Large One]

You are being pedantic as to all intents and purpose as regards the clubs it is law

I'm not being pedantic, I'm being clear.

You cannot be arrested for standing at a football match - it is not illegal. However, you can be ejected. It is not a police matter.

Football clubs have a responsibility to ensure everyone is sitting down, where they can. They also have a legal obligation to health and safety. At times, those considerations will be in conflict.

The authorities can, in certain circumstances, force a club to adhere to the football licenses. If they don't they risk sanction.

The reality is - football clubs realise that getting everyone to sit down is impossible, impractical and usually unsafe. And so they're asking the government for permission to trial safe standing as a variance to the current football license. The government has said 'no' - at least to West Bromwich Albion for reasons as yet unknown, aside from 'we are not convinced of the arguments for safe standing'. The fact that this is exactly what WBA are trying to answer seems to be irrelevant to the DCMS.

 

[Driver8]

We haven’t been told to sit once away this year. It just seems accepted now that people are going to stand so may as well do it safely. With a few seats at the front for those that want it.

 

[darkwolf666]

The Government's stance is that they see no reason to change the law. The Football Offences Act was drafted in the wake of the Hillsborough disaster - indeed, despite the Hillsborough disaster. The eventual outcome of the Hillsborough Inquiry 27 years later has meant that - in law at least - the original arguments against standing at matches are now largely redundant.

This argument must now be won on a Health & Safety consideration.

The SGSA, the body advising the government on this and other stadium issues, has a pre-determined agenda which not only operates on an evidence-free basis, it wishes to go further and insist all clubs get all supporters to sit down - all of the time. This, as every safety officer up and down the country tells them, is impractical, unsafe and largely impossible. But still the SGSA persevere.

The Government wants evidence to see the safe-standing is, well... safe. This can only be obtained by either fans standing at matches (the SoS at DCMS has said that they can't), or a club trial safe standing (WBA had their application turned down for reasons which may never be made clear). In short, every club in the country has to break the law (or rather, break the licensing terms of operation) in order to provide the evidence.

Either way, the Government needs to remove its inherent prejudices, and at least allow safe-standing trials - something the PL, FL, almost all clubs, fans and safety officers are in favour of (and clearly much higher than the '5%' the DCMS said was the interest in safe standing). At the moment, Tracey Crouch doesn't want to know.

At least this debate will show in public - and be placed on Hansard - the arguments for safe-standing. At least Ms Crouch won't be able to plead ignorance in the same way some of her colleagues have been lately.

Just a question, if and it’s a big if, safe standing was introduced at The Amex would there then be a more robust policing of those standing, as those fans clearly have no “right” to stand as they won’t have bought a standing ticket. Just a thought...