Safe Standing at the AMEX: Yes or No?

[Peter Grummit]

It's a bizzarely provocative statement by the club. It squarely confirms the idea that all-seater is about control. I fear for club-fan relations if this is the tone for the future.

Let's face it those who saved the club and secured the stadium (Perry, Knight, Pinnock, Chapman) no longer run the club. It is now a business and a PR machine. The Community Stadium concept is fast becoming a sham. The football is incidental to those with profit targets which drive their bonuses. A great shame. It won't stop me supporting but I will think twice about merchandise, catering etc.

PG

 

[Curious Orange]

90% of the 321 that voted on NSC want change. That is rather a long way from 90% of the clubs fans, don't you think?

That 90% only voted to say they'd support safe standing at the Amex; that isn't the same as demanding it be installed irrespective of the current law, and is without any understanding of the practicalities of doing so should there be a change in the law in the future.

 

[trueblue]

I've always fancied 'safe standing' but the club's response on this was one of the best explanations I've seen of why they wouldn't want it. It's really not that difficult to sit down but still create an atmosphere and if it makes The Amex better for everyone and keeps the hoolies at bay, then that's good enough for me.

I think the idea that you can't sing sitting down is stupid really.. maybe it's just that grounds are attracting more people these days who wouldn't have bothered in the old environment, and they're not the ones likely to make a noise.

 

[attila]

To be honest, I saw this coming - I used to have heated arguments with Richard Hebberd about it in the PA box at Withdean, before our new ground was even a twinkle in Derek 'I support safe standing' Chapman's eye. I am sure that the 'nice quiet identifiable supporter in a seat' argument is the one that is ruling the roost: as I pointed out above this denies football reality in every other country in Europe and is unbelivably, insultingly patronising. And the one aspect of 'inclusivity' which is being totally ignored here is the simple ability to pay. I have had many conversations with dedicated fans who simply can't afford to get a season ticket any more, even with the installments scheme. Where's the 'inclusivity' for them? Safe standing is a simple way to include more fans at lower prices while keeping the same income. Of course, in corporate world such people don't matter - football as a microcosm of society.
We need to think about how we go forward with this one. My view: first and foremost, support the campaign at national level while keeping the debate alive here. Now that the calumny against Liverpool fans has been proved to be such and the lynchpin of the all seater argument swept away, it's only going to be a matter of time before safe standing is allowed by the government and clubs start to implement it. Then would be the time to really take the issue up here big time. If we go too early, before it is legally possible, we'll have far less impact.

 

[attila]

Absolutely this.

And we certainly don't need any POEMS.

Little dig, eh? Pathetic.

 

[Return of the Rev]

as some folk can't work out the apalling bit of the response, i've chopped it out for you:



Backward step? Backward thinking, more like!

#and tb wanted us to be like stoke fans

 

[sully]

My view: first and foremost, support the campaign at national level while keeping the debate alive here. Now that the calumny against Liverpool fans has been proved to be such and the lynchpin of the all seater argument swept away, it's only going to be a matter of time before safe standing is allowed by the government and clubs start to implement it. Then would be the time to really take the issue up here big time. If we go too early, before it is legally possible, we'll have far less impact.

I'd say that is most definitely the only option left to us at the moment and the sensible way forward.

In the meantime, Germany will continue to see more visits from me for football matches!

 

[smeariestbat]

what if we dont sit where our ticket tells us to? that'd wreck their seated and identifiable plan. muwahahaha.

 

[attila]

I'd say that is most definitely the only option left to us at the moment and the sensible way forward.

In the meantime, Germany will continue to see more visits from me for football matches!

Fortunately there are some healthy overlaps in the respective seasons - not much to make a noise about at the Millerntor this year but they are still the LOUDEST

 

[teaboy]

To be honest, I saw this coming - I used to have heated arguments with Richard Hebberd about it in the PA box at Withdean, before our new ground was even a twinkle in Derek 'I support safe standing' Chapman's eye. I am sure that the 'nice quiet identifiable supporter in a seat' argument is the one that is ruling the roost: as I pointed out above this denies football reality in every other country in Europe and is unbelivably, insultingly patronising. And the one aspect of 'inclusivity' which is being totally ignored here is the simple ability to pay. I have had many conversations with dedicated fans who simply can't afford to get a season ticket any more, even with the installments scheme. Where's the 'inclusivity' for them? Safe standing is a simple way to include more fans at lower prices while keeping the same income. Of course, in corporate world such people don't matter - football as a microcosm of society.
We need to think about how we go forward with this one. My view: first and foremost, support the campaign at national level while keeping the debate alive here. Now that the calumny against Liverpool fans has been proved to be such and the lynchpin of the all seater argument swept away, it's only going to be a matter of time before safe standing is allowed by the government and clubs start to implement it. Then would be the time to really take the issue up here big time. If we go too early, before it is legally possible, we'll have far less impact.

Agree 100%. Currently there's no actual issue about the Albion not allowing standing - they aren't allowed to, even if they wanted to. That needs to be changed first. Once there is an actual possibility of safe standing areas we can lean on the club to look at it again (assuming the planning/transport issues are sorted...) I certainly can't see the Amex being the first ground to install it, even if it was legal to allow standing at games.

 

[Ian Bairds Fist]

I don't incidentally think we've 'lost our club'. That's not true in the slightest.

It's just that if and when this sort of thing becomes a proposal, then a plan, a trial and then possibly a reality, we know what the club's stance is. Their starting point is pretty disappointing, and would make any future discussions a bit harder than they would be at other clubs - but we're only at the start of this journey.

There is a long way to go yet.

The embarrassing thing is that we're in a 'club of one'. The only club in the land to opening oppose it.

 

[The Large One]

I've always fancied 'safe standing' but the club's response on this was one of the best explanations I've seen of why they wouldn't want it. It's really not that difficult to sit down but still create an atmosphere and if it makes The Amex better for everyone and keeps the hoolies at bay, then that's good enough for me.

I think the idea that you can't sing sitting down is stupid really.. maybe it's just that grounds are attracting more people these days who wouldn't have bothered in the old environment, and they're not the ones likely to make a noise.

You honestly believe that the physical position of a given person while watching football dictates the nature of their personality?

 

[Ian Bairds Fist]

It does suggest somewhat that they are no longer prepared to take on board the wishes of the supporters, though. I think it is in this sense that the statement "lost our club" was made, though it is a bit of an overreaction, I'd agree.

I agree, it was an overreaction, but that was the sentiment, yes.

 

[The Large One]

The embarrassing thing is that we're in a 'club of one'. The only club in the land to opening oppose it.

True, but we're in a club of one in some (positive) ways too.

This is merely the opening salvo.

 

[Hillian1]

You honestly believe that the physical position of a given person while watching football dictates the nature of their personality?

Can I ask what part of his statement you got that from please Al?

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

You honestly believe that the physical position of a given person while watching football dictates the nature of their personality?

Peterborough have their terraces and i dont recall them having very violent, hooligan type fans.

 

[attila]

We haven't 'lost our club' at all, Mr. Fist. They have issued a really insensitively worded statement which seems to rule out dialogue on one issue - an issue which we care lots about, but only one issue. That's all.

 

[The Large One]

Can I ask what part of his statement you got that from please Al?

That he is making an implication that standing is for 'hoolies', or rather that sitting 'keeps the hoolies at bay...'

I thought standing was for all behavioural aspects of society.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

We haven't 'lost our club' at all, Mr. Fist. They have issued a really insensitively worded statement which seems to rule out dialogue on one issue - an issue which we care lots about, but only one issue. That's all.

This. Absolutely correct.

Some real over-reaction around these parts at the moment, on just about everything.

 

[Ian Bairds Fist]

To be honest, I saw this coming - I used to have heated arguments with Richard Hebberd about it in the PA box at Withdean, before our new ground was even a twinkle in Derek 'I support safe standing' Chapman's eye. I am sure that the 'nice quiet identifiable supporter in a seat' argument is the one that is ruling the roost: as I pointed out above this denies football reality in every other country in Europe and is unbelivably, insultingly patronising. And the one aspect of 'inclusivity' which is being totally ignored here is the simple ability to pay. I have had many conversations with dedicated fans who simply can't afford to get a season ticket any more, even with the installments scheme. Where's the 'inclusivity' for them? Safe standing is a simple way to include more fans at lower prices while keeping the same income. Of course, in corporate world such people don't matter - football as a microcosm of society.
We need to think about how we go forward with this one. My view: first and foremost, support the campaign at national level while keeping the debate alive here. Now that the calumny against Liverpool fans has been proved to be such and the lynchpin of the all seater argument swept away, it's only going to be a matter of time before safe standing is allowed by the government and clubs start to implement it. Then would be the time to really take the issue up here big time. If we go too early, before it is legally possible, we'll have far less impact.

Agreed. Get the pilot kicked off at Villa/Posh/SPL/wherever. Once that is a roaring success the implementation of rail seats will become inevitable. This campaign has come a long way in a short period of time. Thanks to Bozza for making this a sticky - will keep everyone updated on here.