[Albion] Sacking Hughton and racial implications

[seagull_special]

The problem is made worse by the fact that you now run the risk of being accused of discrimination if you sack a BAME manager making it less attractive to clubs to address a serious imbalance.

Kick it Out have apologized unreservedly and quite frankly they should be ashamed of Troy Townsend’s comments as he has put their cause back.

 

[Nixonator]

I keep wondering about this element. What is enough? In 2011, 86% of the country was white. Now that may very well have changed (in fact, I imagine it has!), but that equates to around 10 BAME managers across the 72 clubs. Funnily enough, only 3.3% of the population was from black ethnic groups which equates to about 2.5 jobs, which were easily covered for much of this season by Campbell, Hughton, Chris Powell and Moore. The group who are most affected are the Asian community who don't have anyone managing in this country as far as I can tell. So what is enough? And how can coaches of other ethnicities be encouraged into management?

Equal distribution irrespective of individual competance and/or national demographic.

Equal opportunity should be forever sought, but amending outcomes is a dangerous game. We are entering the world of identity group quotas now. Buckle up.

 

[A1X]

The really, really ridiculous thing about this is you'll struggle to find any club in the land which is as diverse and tolerant among it's supporter base as this one, and that is reflected throughout the club. Meanwhile a number of other clubs have done actually racist things, and are followed by lot of actual racists who do actual racist things all the time at games, and if it does provoke comment it's quickly forgotten about.

 

[Eeyore]

“When players like Danny Rose say there is no point taking your badges, here’s an example of the reasons why”

For me that was the point that he crossed the line and implied that the sacking of Chris could have been linked to the colour of his skin. We all know that Danny Rose was talking solely about racism in football..

I’ve no problem with anything else that Darren has said on the subject, he’s entitled to his opinion like we all are but I personally think that the direction taken here in directly linking the sacking to that Danny Rose interview was wrong.

I understand, but he has addressed this now. I think it's good to stand back a little. Hughton's sacking has provoked an emotional response as he was so important to BAME representation. That's why I think a little reflection is called for. It's clear that the inferences that it was because of his skin colour are being rolled back now.

 

[Eeyore]

The problem is made worse by the fact that you now run the risk of being accused of discrimination if you sack a BAME manager making it less attractive to clubs to address a serious imbalance.

Kick it Out have apologized unreservedly and quite frankly they should be ashamed of Troy Townsend’s comments as he has put their cause back.

He has only put their cause back if that's what folk want. Their cause is really everyone's cause. I'm sure most folk would love to see a higher BAME representation. It's good for us all.

It was an emotional outburst. We should just move on. It's been addressed.

 

[Billy the Fish]

He hasn't said it was racially motivated.

'Chris Hughton's sacking at Brighton was not because of the colour of his skin - but his exit leaves us with just two black managers in 92 clubs'

He, like Townsend, was showing their frustration at where an (in their view) poor decision has scuppered the flagship for BAME involvement.

I get it. That's why I'm not going to get angry about it. The debate is on the dismissal itself (Possibly the correct one- time will tell) and the timing of the announcement (I thought a bit poor).

He hasn't in the article, I think it was more the wording of his tweet: "This is why Danny Rose isn't bothering to do his badges"

 

[father_and_son]

I keep wondering about this element. What is enough? In 2011, 86% of the country was white. Now that may very well have changed (in fact, I imagine it has!), but that equates to around 10 BAME managers across the 72 clubs. Funnily enough, only 3.3% of the population was from black ethnic groups which equates to about 2.5 jobs, which were easily covered for much of this season by Campbell, Hughton, Chris Powell and Moore. The group who are most affected are the Asian community who don't have anyone managing in this country as far as I can tell. So what is enough? And how can coaches of other ethnicities be encouraged into management?

Thought the same... I don't think you can necessarily base it on the general population. [Disclaimer: I have no idea of the numbers for any of this!]

Perhaps it should be measured against players? I know not every manager was a player, but most were, so should we be aspiring to a similar make up of managers as we have of players... isn't that the measure of what progression is available to you in your profession? [Assuming of course that you consider being manager as the "top" job available to the average youth team player]

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Thought the same... I don't think you can necessarily base it on the general population. [Disclaimer: I have no idea of the numbers for any of this!]

Perhaps it should be measured against players? I know not every manager was a player, but most were, so should we be aspiring to a similar make up of managers as we have of players... isn't that the measure of what progression is available to you in your profession? [Assuming of course that you consider being manager as the "top" job available to the average youth team player]

But then you have to ask why groups that are bigger than, say, the black ethnic groups aren't being represented within our football enough in order to fall into this category. It definitely doesn't feel like there's an easy answer. I agree in principle with what you're saying.

 

[father_and_son]

Equal distribution irrespective of individual competance and/or national demographic.

Equal opportunity should be forever sought, but amending outcomes is a dangerous game. We are entering the world of identity group quotas now. Buckle up.

Agree... we should "aspire to" rather than "mandate".

 

[father_and_son]

But then you have to ask why groups that are bigger than, say, the black ethnic groups aren't being represented within our football enough in order to fall into this category. It definitely doesn't feel like there's an easy answer. I agree in principle with what you're saying.

You can lose yourself Inception-style as you loop through this. I was going to post my anecdotal evidence regarding ethnicity-based preferences for, say, Cricket over Football in my ethnically diverse team at work. But then started to question why my boss (of Indian origin) would say he would pursue a career in Cricket rather than Football if equally talented in each... is that bias itself the result of prior exclusion which has turned into self-exclusion!

 

[Mellotron]

He hasn't said it was racially motivated.

'Chris Hughton's sacking at Brighton was not because of the colour of his skin - but his exit leaves us with just two black managers in 92 clubs'

He, like Townsend, was showing their frustration at where an (in their view) poor decision has scuppered the flagship for BAME involvement.

I get it. That's why I'm not going to get angry about it. The debate is on the dismissal itself (Possibly the correct one- time will tell) and the timing of the announcement (I thought a bit poor).

He linked it to Danny Rose saying there is no point getting your coaching badges if you are black. He was snidely insinuating it was racially motivated.

 

[METALMICKY]

One suspects that the grovelling apology is because Tony's rather good expensive lawyers may have got in touch. Any chance we can go after that lurid suited doughnut muncher John Barnes?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I understand, but he has addressed this now. I think it's good to stand back a little. Hughton's sacking has provoked an emotional response as he was so important to BAME representation. That's why I think a little reflection is called for. It's clear that the inferences that it was because of his skin colour are being rolled back now.

I disagree. If you said something emotional like 'I'm glad that (insert racist comment) manager is gone' you'd rightly be pillared for being racist. Turning that on its head, why is snidely and wrongly accusing someone of being racist ok - given its a label that can stick and lose people jobs - given they were a bit upset about the situation? Troy Townsend tweet about Ashworth was a low blow and rightly been retracted. Lewis's tweet is at best misguided.

We are one of the most inclusive clubs in the country. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the situation by insinuating we are anything but.

 

[Eeyore]

I disagree. If you said something emotional like 'I'm glad that (insert racist comment) manager is gone' you'd rightly be pillared for being racist. Turning that on its head, why is snidely and wrongly accusing someone of being racist ok - given its a label that can stick and lose people jobs - given they were a bit upset about the situation? Troy Townsend tweet about Ashworth was a low blow and rightly been retracted. Lewis's tweet is at best misguided.

We are one of the most inclusive clubs in the country. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the situation by insinuating we are anything but.

I don't know what he said about him.

 

[Springal]

I don't know what he said about him.

He implied that Mark Sampson time at the FA happened under Ashworth watch. And now Hughton has been sacked a few months after we have hired Ashworth.

 

[Wozza]

Lewis's tweet is at best misguided.

And at worst, libellous.

 

[Eeyore]

He implied that Mark Sampson time at the FA happened under Ashworth watch. And now Hughton has been sacked a few months after we have hired Ashworth.

Yes, just seen it. Not very clever.

KIO is an important organisation They would be wise to consider his remit.

 

[Waveknight]

He did. If he does that about Hughton having slagged off his tactics for months, the bloke is 100 per cent a total tool.

The blokes a tool full stop if he did say that was the reason behind Darren Moore's sacking.

 

[Kneon Light]

No it's not. Managers come and go all the time, and it won't be long before CH gets another club. So no, its not a 'blow to BAME representation' because he is still a professional football manager, who is now doing what every other football manager on planet football does when it goes wrong at a club - find another one.

Bringing race into the sacking of CH is sending the wrong message out. If you sack a black manager your club will be labelled racist. Great job for motivating clubs to take on BAME managers, way to go.

When you start the season with 4 BAME managers and by the end of the season it s down to 2 of course that is a blow to BAME representation.
Losing 50% of Premier League BAME managers is also a blow to BAME representation.

That's not to say the managers should not have been sacked (they were clearly both sacked for football reasons) but clearly the percentage of BAME managers going down is a blow.

 

[Guinness Boy]

When you start the season with 4 BAME managers and by the end of the season it s down to 2 of course that is a blow to BAME representation.
Losing 50% of Premier League BAME managers is also a blow to BAME representation.

That's not to say the managers should not have been sacked (they were clearly both sacked for football reasons) but clearly the percentage of BAME managers going down is a blow.

And yet Hughton is being touted for an immediate return to Moore’s old club. If he does the percentage increased by goes up massively. The issue is the low starting base, not the movement within it


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