[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[The Clamp]

The correct thing to do is adopt Putins own rules of engagement and just lie about everything.

'We haven't authorised the use of our missiles and reject Russian claims they are being used as fake news'.

Just keep parroting that until he moves on to his next gripe and deny that as well.

I honestly don't even get why the media continue to provide an air of legitimacy and respect to Putin, he's a tyrannical terrorist dictator, they should report on him as such.

Very good post

 

[jcdenton08]

I don’t see that we are basically doing that to Russia.

Russia invaded their neighbour.

We are providing arms to help rid a sovereign nation of an invading force.



Yes, it’s concerning but I don’t think we have much to worry about.

What country is going to risk being turned into a war zone by NATO for the sake of lobbing a few missiles onto the UK?

My concern is this universally agreed assumption that NATO would hold firm and show solidarity if the reality of literal world war broke out. Someone made the point before that the fact it is largely untested outside of peacekeeping forces means it’s working. I agree of course, although it does remind me of this slightly;



I’m also thinking would Trump pony up and fight? The French? If one superpower refuses to fulfil their obligation of solidarity within NATO, the whole thing could collapse.

And really, NATO solidarity is nothing more or less than a handshake.

 

[Easy 10]

I don’t see that we are basically doing that to Russia.

Russia invaded their neighbour.

We are providing arms to help rid a sovereign nation of an invading force.



Yes, it’s concerning but I don’t think we have much to worry about.

What country is going to risk being turned into a war zone by NATO for the sake of lobbing a few missiles onto the UK?

Yes, Russia invaded its neighbour and we have been helping them fight them off (and now counterattack them with long range missiles). In Putin's eyes this invasion, this war, is entirely justified. It doesn't matter what the World perception is over its unjustified invasion of a sovereign nation. Putin doesn't give a f*ck over the rights and wrongs of it.

The missiles GB and USA are supplying have a range of around 150 miles. From Ukraine, thats not going to hit Moscow. But its still a serious escalation when our missiles are raining down into Russian territory, with our blessing. Putin is a nutter. He's not going to show weakness to the West by shrugging his shoulders at this, imo.

 

[Easy 10]

I honestly don't even get why the media continue to provide an air of legitimacy and respect to Putin, he's a tyrannical terrorist dictator, they should report on him as such.

They absolutely do.

 

[peterward]

Yes, Russia invaded its neighbour and we have been helping them fight them off (and now counterattack them with long range missiles). In Putin's eyes this invasion, this war, is entirely justified. It doesn't matter what the World perception is over its unjustified invasion of a sovereign nation. Putin doesn't give a f*ck over the rights and wrongs of it.

The missiles GB and USA are supplying have a range of around 150 miles. From Ukraine, thats not going to hit Moscow. But its still a serious escalation when our missiles are raining down into Russian territory, with our blessing. Putin is a nutter. He's not going to show weakness to the West by shrugging his shoulders at this, imo.

It's not in anyway justified under international law, despite whatever bullshit narrative Putin may peddle, and Putins only intent is to eradicate Ukraine and Ukrainian culture, that is genocide.

US ATACMs have a range up to 300km, ours and French storm shadow/scalp cruise missiles up to 550km and they could just reach Moscow.

I totally disagree that this is an escalation, it's entirely justified under UN charter to hit military supplies/troops outside your borders, if your country is under attack. Of course Putin doesn't like it and has grown very comfortable with the ridiculous escalation management/appeasement of the last 3 years, where he has had carte blanche to illegally fire over 10k projectiles into Ukraine, the majority into civillian buildings to simply terrorise , amass his supplies just over border, and now Ukraine exercise its right under UN charter to just hit military targets in Russia (not civillian) and he has a hissy fit.

He always has the option of calling off his genocide, international law remains however, and what Ukraine is doing is legal. If Russia was non nuclear or Ukraine hadn't stupidly handed over the world's 3rd largest arsenal, it wouldn't even be an issue.

Putin isnt crazy or a nutter in that sense, hes very calculating, he believes he can bluff with a pair of 3s and running out of cash, if he can shit you up enough to make you fold the better hand, he likes 1 sided bullying and doesn't like it much if you punch back. But he's no jihadist. What he's doing is meant to make you/us scared, it's reflexive control.

 

[Nobby]

If that c**t had had any sense - he'd have withdrawn completely after his joke of a "3 day plan" fell apart. .

He couldn’t.
And there in lies the big problem here
Putin is now getting towards becoming Hitler in his bunker
A dangerous maniac who just cannot afford to be seen to be losing.
I’m not sure how any peace deal can ever be agreed with him - he will be disappeared on any sign of perceived backtracking or weakness
He cannot afford to fail.
So he just escalates to the next level

 

[Eric the meek]

This thread needs some context.

Yes, Russia has got a new missile. It has issued new threats.

Here's a snapshot of the state of Russia this morning.

The ruble continues to fall, making all Russian imports more expensive. Russia is importing inflation.

I USD = 101.489 Rub.

Half of its fleet of Airbus 320 are grounded due to engine wear.

On the railways, a manager says the system is on the precipice of total collapse. Average rail speed across Russia is now 5km/hour.

No wonder it is resorting to long range missiles.

 

[Commander]

This thread needs some context.

Yes, Russia has got a new missile. It has issued new threats.

Here's a snapshot of the state of Russia this morning.

The ruble continues to fall, making all Russian imports more expensive. Russia is importing inflation.

I USD = 101.489 Rub.

Half of its fleet of Airbus 320 are grounded due to engine wear.

On the railways, a manager says the system is on the precipice of total collapse. Average rail speed across Russia is now 5km/hour.

No wonder it is resorting to long range missiles.

And imagine what a war with NATO would do to the Russian economy.

 

[essbee1]

He couldn’t.
And there in lies the big problem here
Putin is now getting towards becoming Hitler in his bunker
A dangerous maniac who just cannot afford to be seen to be losing.
I’m not sure how any peace deal can ever be agreed with him - he will be disappeared on any sign of perceived backtracking or weakness
He cannot afford to fail.
So he just escalates to the next level

Fair enough Nobby.

 

[crookie]

Always found it a bit strange that all weapons donations are widely trailed and announced beforehand, allowing Putin to threaten retaliation and red lines. Is it because we have a 24hour news culture that demands we know everything before it happens ? Surely one of the key aspects of military strategy is to keep your enemy guessing. Remember that WW2 poster, "Careless talk costs lives", yet here we are nearly 3 years in and every politician can't help blabbing about what weapons they are handing over. No wonder Ukraine told no-one in the West about their Kursk operation beforehand, otherwise it would have been all over the Western media.

 

[Zeberdi]

He couldn’t.
And there in lies the big problem here
Putin is now getting towards becoming Hitler in his bunker
A dangerous maniac who just cannot afford to be seen to be losing.
I’m not sure how any peace deal can ever be agreed with him - he will be disappeared on any sign of perceived backtracking or weakness
He cannot afford to fail.
So he just escalates to the next level

I think Trump has very similar qualities - all dictators seem to have that narcissistic and bunker mentality that becomes dangerous when they feel threatened.

It looks to my very uneducated eye that both Russia and Ukraine are stepping it up in a renewed effort to move the frontline in their respective favours ahead of the inauguration on January 20 when Trump will take control. It is likely Trump’s ‘Peace Plan’ will be a proposal to settle on where the frontline is at that moment and Ukraine conceding territory already occupied.

Trump has built much of his reputation on ‘not losing’ and saying he can ‘end wars’. - this basically means Trump appeasing strongest aggressors in any conflict and by selling out the ‘underdogs’ in his peace proposals as we know from his first term.

Both Ukraine and Russia know this too so December and early January imo could see the most uptick in the war since 2022.

*edit - cartoon removed*

 

[nicko31]

This thread needs some context.

Yes, Russia has got a new missile. It has issued new threats.

Here's a snapshot of the state of Russia this morning.

The ruble continues to fall, making all Russian imports more expensive. Russia is importing inflation.

I USD = 101.489 Rub.

Half of its fleet of Airbus 320 are grounded due to engine wear.

On the railways, a manager says the system is on the precipice of total collapse. Average rail speed across Russia is now 5km/hour.

No wonder it is resorting to long range missiles.

Russia is falling apart committing another huge round of funding. Privately if he's got a braincell he will want a way out without losing face.

Or maybe he's pondering whether to fire a missile at Stoke or Clacton ?

 

[Brian Munich]

Well I'm no expert, but I'm feeling unsettled. It doesn't have to be nuclear to be devastating.

Imagine if a foreign nation (say...Belarus) began launching interballistic missiles from their country into England - missiles which were directly supplied by the Russians, and given the green light by Putin to do so.

What should our response be, given that its basically what we are doing to Russia ? As a NATO member we know an attack on the UK is an attack on all members. Bloody hell.

Hopefully this is just another load of the usual Moscow sabre-rattling. But this does feel a little...different. And further escalation doesn't feel too far away now.

Have we invaded Belarus recently killing thousands of civilians and destroying towns?

 

[The Clamp]

Always found it a bit strange that all weapons donations are widely trailed and announced beforehand, allowing Putin to threaten retaliation and red lines. Is it because we have a 24hour news culture that demands we know everything before it happens ? Surely one of the key aspects of military strategy is to keep your enemy guessing. Remember that WW2 poster, "Careless talk costs lives", yet here we are nearly 3 years in and every politician can't help blabbing about what weapons they are handing over. No wonder Ukraine told no-one in the West about their Kursk operation beforehand, otherwise it would have been all over the Western media.

I heartily agree.

They say it’s to raise morale. Well, I feel better not knowing to be honest .

I think you’re right. It’s desperately needed news content.

 

[Eric the meek]

 

[Eric the meek]

06:09 AM 1 USD = 101.489 Rub.
08:30 AM 1 USD = 102.383 Rub.

1 RUB to USD - Russian Rubles to US Dollars Exchange Rate

Get the latest 1 Russian Ruble to US Dollar rate for FREE with the original Universal Currency Converter. Set rate alerts for to and learn more about Russian Rubles and US Dollars from XE - the Currency Authority.

www.xe.com

 

[raymondo]

I'm having a dumb moment - what does that mean?





No offence meant to the contributors, but I think they're just invested enthusiasts like me

I can only assume he means there are Russian agents in all those countries and they will somehow () get the sanctions stopped

 

[A1X]

In a conventional war, IMHO NATO is in Moscow in a week

NATO’s conventional forces are light year ahead of Russia’s

 

[raymondo]

Dr Hoffman says: The question is, do Western leaders have the intestinal fortitude to look evil in the face and say, "No, you're NOT getting your way in Ukraine."

Surely we already know the answer. Russia is making the same threats that it's been making for over 2 years, and the West has ignored them every single time, and will continue to ignore them.

No one can believe these empty threats, it's embarrassing.

I would actually like the west/Ukraine to draw some red lines: eg 'the next time you hit a hospital or an apartment block... the Kerch bridge is coming down. It's your choice '.
That sort of thing.

 

[raymondo]

I don't think they will do that. I confess to s**ting myself when they attacked Zaporizhzhia & were threatening to cut power to it. How were they going to cool the reactors etc. I know someone who is actually an 'expert' in the nuclear power industry. He said a load of stuff that I didn't understand, but was reassuring!

One of Russia's biggest nuclear power plants is in Kursk. So Russia have Zaporizhzhia, but Ukraine have now entered Kursk & I suspect with no evidence at all, that that nuclear power station is one of the reasons why. It makes sense in my head anyway!

The power station in Kursk did look to be a Ukrainian goal when they first invaded...but I think they lost some momentum.