[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[driddles]

Things are never simple in America, only the people are.....

I had to watch the Super Bowl with my nieces two friends who drove up from Indiana. They are mid 50's far right Republicans. They ranted about their southern border and all the Mexicans flooding the country.

When I said did you know the Democrats tried to pass a 20 Billion dollar bill in the last few weeks to hire almost 2,000 new border guards, expand detention centres, and improve drug checks, they said "that's what they want you to believe, only trump can help us". I could only handle being with them for the first half, I had to go home after that.

 

[Insel affe]

I had to watch the Super Bowl with my nieces two friends who drove up from Indiana. They are mid 50's far right Republicans. They ranted about their southern border and all the Mexicans flooding the country.

When I said did you know the Democrats tried to pass a 20 Billion dollar bill in the last few weeks to hire almost 2,000 new border guards, expand detention centres, and improve drug checks, they said "that's what they want you to believe, only trump can help us". I could only handle being with them for the first half, I had to go home after that.

As nice as some of them are, they really all do go down their own separate niche rabbit holes, and simply are not open to reason or an alternative take on their opinion that once is made seems to be set in stone.
Well that is my experience with some friends and family in America.
Sad really, because off topic most of them are the friendliest and nicest people in the world.

shame

 

[driddles]

... because off topic most of them are the friendliest and nicest people in the world...

An absolute fact, nicest people in the world for the most part.

 

[Marlton and Hove Albion]

I had to watch the Super Bowl with my nieces two friends who drove up from Indiana. They are mid 50's far right Republicans. They ranted about their southern border and all the Mexicans flooding the country.

When I said did you know the Democrats tried to pass a 20 Billion dollar bill in the last few weeks to hire almost 2,000 new border guards, expand detention centres, and improve drug checks, they said "that's what they want you to believe, only trump can help us". I could only handle being with them for the first half, I had to go home after that.

Which political party had control of Congress and WH for two years 2021 & 2022?

 

[US Seagull]

The thumping endorsement of the senate may help smooth the path in the house

Fingers crossed. Ukraine need this to go through

It won't. Donald Trump doesn't want Biden to get "a win" and he especially doesn't want it at the expense of his master best bud Putin. He will pressure Speaker Mike Johnson not to bring it up for a vote. If Johnson does bring it up for a vote, that'll be the end of him as speaker. Marjorie Taylor Greene has already promised a motion to vacate.

It is possible if enough Democrats and a few Republicans can band together, they can sign a discharge petition and force a vote on the floor. Those Republicans though, would be permanently on Trump's shit list.

 

[driddles]

It won't. Donald Trump doesn't want Biden to get "a win" and he especially doesn't want it at the expense of his master best bud Putin. He will pressure Speaker Mike Johnson not to bring it up for a vote. If Johnson does bring it up for a vote, that'll be the end of him as speaker. Marjorie Taylor Greene has already promised a motion to vacate.

It is possible if enough Democrats and a few Republicans can band together, they can sign a discharge petition and force a vote on the floor. Those Republicans though, would be permanently on Trump's shit list.

There's a special election today to fill George Santos's seat in New York. If the Democrats win it the margin of error for the Republicans in the house gets even smaller. Hopefully the Republicans in the house fall through the thin ice they have created.

 

[herecomesaregular]

View attachment 175793

When watching the Superbowl the other night/early morning I was shocked to hear the commentator say the estimated amount bet on the game was $25 billion (I can't remember the exact figure 23 or 27). edit - Now I'm not sure if that was worldwide or the NFL season as a whole but he definitely said billion not million and it was mid 20s. Surely not?

 

[raymondo]

It won't. Donald Trump doesn't want Biden to get "a win" and he especially doesn't want it at the expense of his master best bud Putin. He will pressure Speaker Mike Johnson not to bring it up for a vote. If Johnson does bring it up for a vote, that'll be the end of him as speaker. Marjorie Taylor Greene has already promised a motion to vacate.

It is possible if enough Democrats and a few Republicans can band together, they can sign a discharge petition and force a vote on the floor. Those Republicans though, would be permanently on Trump's shit list.

So the Speaker controls what can be voted on (I'm truly ignorant of how it works in the US).

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

It won't. Donald Trump doesn't want Biden to get "a win" and he especially doesn't want it at the expense of his master best bud Putin. He will pressure Speaker Mike Johnson not to bring it up for a vote. If Johnson does bring it up for a vote, that'll be the end of him as speaker. Marjorie Taylor Greene has already promised a motion to vacate.

It is possible if enough Democrats and a few Republicans can band together, they can sign a discharge petition and force a vote on the floor. Those Republicans though, would be permanently on Trump's shit list.

So how come all those Senators put it through?

 

[US Seagull]

So how come all those Senators put it through?

Because the senate isn't the house. We have a bicameral legislature.

 

[US Seagull]

So the Speaker controls what can be voted on (I'm truly ignorant of how it works in the US).

The speaker generally gets to set the agenda in the house, yes.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Because the senate isn't the house. We have a bicameral legislature.

Yes. I know.

But you said representatives would be terrified of trump. So why weren't republican Senators?

Apologies to all that this is veering slightly. I know how much this thread means to all of you. It's just i believe getting this and other support bills passed in the US is massive for Ukraine

 

[US Seagull]

Yes. I know.

But you said representatives would be terrified of trump. So why weren't republican Senators?

Apologies to all that this is veering slightly. I know how much this thread means to all of you. It's just i believe getting this and other support bills passed in the US is massive for Ukraine

Senators only face election once every six years and they represent the entire state.

House representatives face reelection every two years and many are from heavily gerrymandered districts.

That's the difference. Reps are much more vulnerable to a primary challenge from somebody more Trumpy than them.

 

[raymondo]

From the Guardian:
The House speaker, Mike Johnson, asked if he planned to put the bill to a vote, said “I certainly don’t” and suggested members were busy with other matters. But Republicans and Democrats in favour of supporting Ukraine could force a vote using a process called a “discharge petition” if enough of them banded together. The US president, Joe Biden, has urged members of the House to ignore the hectoring of Donald Trump and approve the bill."

I'd encourage you to click the blue link to watch Biden's positive response against Trump's recent NATO statement.

 

[raymondo]

Yes. I know.

But you said representatives would be terrified of trump. So why weren't republican Senators?

Apologies to all that this is veering slightly. I know how much this thread means to all of you. It's just i believe getting this and other support bills passed in the US is massive for Ukraine

No apologies needed...a lot of us (me included!) probably need to understand the US political system better.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

No apologies needed...a lot of us (me included!) probably need to understand the US political system better.

In more directly related news.

Another bullseye for the good guys. Another Russian Cruiser goes down

Ukrainian forces destroy large Russian landing ship off Crimea – as it happened

Hit on Tsezar Kunikov, in waters off the occupied peninsula, hailed by Ukrainian military

www.theguardian.com

It's naval losses which have really hit Russia hard in the last few months

 

[raymondo]

Broadening of sanctions.

EU proposes sanctions on Chinese firms aiding Russian war effort

Bloc hoping to close loopholes that allow Moscow to route military technology via third countries

www.theguardian.com

 

[raymondo]

In more directly related news.

Another bullseye for the good guys. Another Russian Cruiser goes down

Ukrainian forces destroy large Russian landing ship off Crimea – as it happened

Hit on Tsezar Kunikov, in waters off the occupied peninsula, hailed by Ukrainian military

www.theguardian.com

It's naval losses which have really hit Russia hard in the last few months

Excellent news. I know that on the front line Ukraine is straining to hold back minor Russian advances in some places(eg Avdivka) , but in terms of naval success, and attacks on infrastructure and storage, Ukraine is doing very well.

 

[schmunk]

There's a special election today to fill George Santos's seat in New York. If the Democrats win it the margin of error for the Republicans in the house gets even smaller. Hopefully the Republicans in the house fall through the thin ice they have created.

...and win it they did:

Tom Suozzi: Democrats hail victory in special election to replace George Santos

Democrats say Tom Suozzi's race could be their roadmap for the US general election in November.

www.bbc.co.uk

Edit: or, technically, "will, when they've finished counting".

 

[Eric the meek]

Excellent news. I know that on the front line Ukraine is straining to hold back minor Russian advances in some places(eg Avdivka) , but in terms of naval success, and attacks on infrastructure and storage, Ukraine is doing very well.

I was thinking last night, that we hadn't had a 'big bang' from Ukraine for a few days. Well here we have it.

Ukraine seems to have almost bypassed the front line and is focusing on a series of strikes on military targets deep inside Russia.
I assume it is all designed to degrade Russia's ability to supply its front line (by hits on oil refineries and arms depots). But why the attacks on landing craft? Unless Russia is planning to land (or re-land) anywhere, they're a bit superfluous. Is Ukraine clearing the decks? Taking risk off the table?

I wonder if Ukraine is planning anything to help Russia celebrate the presidential election in March?