[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I'm not impressed with the we are in a position like Israel quote. Israel is not under threat from It's neighbours. Israel 's neighbours are occupied or challenged.

Fair point. It's a flawed comparison. The US are underwriting this war and he must convince a US audience to back him is the only way I can think of to explain that

 

[US Seagull]

We have a local lawyer that uses that same pose in all his ads:

There's currently a huge billboard just around the corner from me with this guys face reminding people to "DRIVE SAFE"
(else he'll MAKE YOU PAY, presumably)

 

[knocky1]

are we?

How politically ignorant. My point is valid. Gaza and the West Bank are in a position like Ukraine not Israel. Zelensky should consider that.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I'm not impressed with the we are in a position like Israel quote. Israel is not under threat from It's neighbours. Israel 's neighbours are occupied or challenged.

Israel is under threat from Iran who has stated it wants to destroy Israel and the jews . It runs a proxy war via Hezbollah and has done for many years. Israel is also under threat from low level attacks from Hamas.

The dynamics of the middle east have changed , the surrounding countries are much less of a threat or have moved towards the west though Syria's alliance with Iran means it allows Hezbollah to freely use it's territories for attacks.

Israel adopted a strong line based on a 'never again' approach following the Holocaust. The wars since the state was founded meant that many 'liberal' jews left and have been replaced by those who are very extreme in their religion and this is driving the 'settlement' of Arab areas. I don't condone what is happening but I understand how the situation has occurred and feel that until all external threats are removed Israel will continue on with its current agenda.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Hold up though fellas. Maybe a middle east discussion someplace else if you want to go down that path

 

[sparkie]

Can we have a ‘Whose winning’ this war in terms an idiot like myself can understand. If it’s not in bad taste give it to me in a football analogy
I know The Ukraine went 1-0 down early on.

No winners at all.

The hope is still alive that Putin himself will be the biggest loser in the end.

 

[raymondo]

Amazing ingenuity for low cost delivery of a payload that still inflicts serious damage.

Ukraine claims it damaged prized Russian jets using 'cardboard' drones from Australia in a daring raid

Australia gifted the Corvo PPDS drone, made of lightweight board and rubber, to Ukraine. Now it's possible they've struck a Russian airfield.

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[Eric the meek]

Amazing ingenuity for low cost delivery of a payload that still inflicts serious damage.

Ukraine claims it damaged prized Russian jets using 'cardboard' drones from Australia in a daring raid

Australia gifted the Corvo PPDS drone, made of lightweight board and rubber, to Ukraine. Now it's possible they've struck a Russian airfield.

uk.news.yahoo.com

Previously it was fighter planes. This time, transport planes were the target.

Ukraine war: Wave of drone strikes hits several Russian regions

Moscow says military planes were damaged in strikes on an airport and vows Ukraine will "not go unpunished".

www.bbc.co.uk

Ukraine would seem to be targeting Russia's ability to wage war on it. Maximum bang for their buck.

 

[herecomesaregular]

How politically ignorant. My point is valid. Gaza and the West Bank are in a position like Ukraine not Israel. Zelensky should consider that.

You're just trying to derail the thread

 

[raymondo]

Previously it was fighter planes. This time, transport planes were the target.

Ukraine war: Wave of drone strikes hits several Russian regions

Moscow says military planes were damaged in strikes on an airport and vows Ukraine will "not go unpunished".

www.bbc.co.uk

Ukraine would seem to be targeting Russia's ability to wage war on it. Maximum bang for their buck.

And let's hope Ukraine can maximise efforts in this way, as I fear the losses they are suffering at the front lines- probably less than Russia's, but significant for Ukraine.

 

[Icy Gull]

And let's hope Ukraine can maximise efforts in this way, as I fear the losses they are suffering at the front lines- probably less than Russia's, but significant for Ukraine.

Exactly, the three experienced pilots they have lost recently must be a body blow given they could have trained up the young recruits

Something I saw on a recent programme.

 

[raymondo]

Exactly, the three experienced pilots they have lost recently must be a body blow give they could have trained up the young recruits

Yes, a very sad loss indeed

 

[peterward]

I'm not impressed with the we are in a position like Israel quote. Israel is not under threat from It's neighbours. Israel 's neighbours are occupied or challenged.

Theres no contradiction at all imho, youre taking a guess at perspective and drawing conclusions on that.

Whilslt there isnt enough for exact context, to balance your own, I genuinely believed he meant in a wider context like Iran, who has avowed to wipe Israel from the face of the earth (and other hostile anti Israel states) not Palestinians. Iran is a regional malign actor who is the main state sponsor of terrorist organistions like Hezbollah who frequently carry out attacks on Israel (similar Russia - Wagner)

Additionally for Ukraine to be so armed to the teeth (like Israel), that Ukraine, (like Israel) becomes a very hard and bitter pill to swallow for nations like Iran (vis a vis Russia) to carry out its hoped for genocide.

 

[raymondo]

Theres no contradiction at all imho, youre taking a guess at perspective and drawing conclusions on that.

Whilslt there isnt enough for exact context, to balance your own, I genuinely believed he meant in a wider context like Iran, who has avowed to wipe Israel from the face of the earth (and other hostile anti Israel states) not Palestinians. Iran is a regional malign who is the main state sponsor of terrorist organistions like Hezbollah who frequently carry out attacks on Israel (similar Russia - Wagner)

Additionally for Ukraine to be so armed to the teeth (like Israel), that Ukraine, (like Israel) becomes a very hard and bitter pill to swallow for nations like Iran (vis a vis Russia) to carry out its hoped for genocide.

That's how I understood Zekenskiy's words too: Iran's threats of genocide.

 

[Wardy's twin]

How politically ignorant. My point is valid. Gaza and the West Bank are in a position like Ukraine not Israel. Zelensky should consider that.

Neither Gaza nor West Bank were internationally recognized independent countries they were always part of something else .

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Neither Gaza nor West Bank were internationally recognized independent countries they were always part of something else .

It is very hard to be an internationally 'recognised' independent country when you spend two thousand years being controlled by the Persians, the Macedonians, the Romans, the Caliphates, the Crusaders, the Ottomans and the British - and you are then torn apart in sectarian conflict.

 

[knocky1]

Neither Gaza nor West Bank were internationally recognized independent countries they were always part of something else .

Crimea has never been internationally recognised as an independent country and always been part of something else.
Roman, Ottoman, Russian, Ukrainian, Russian.
Leave Palestine out of this please, Mr Zelensky.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Whilslt there isnt enough for exact context, to balance your own, I genuinely believed he meant in a wider context like Iran, who has avowed to wipe Israel from the face of the earth (and other hostile anti Israel states) not Palestinians. Iran is a regional malign actor who is the main state sponsor of terrorist organistions like Hezbollah who frequently carry out attacks on Israel (similar Russia - Wagner)

To be clear - the biggest threat to the Middle East is (and has been) US imperialism - operating through two channels of control via Saudi Arabia and Israel. The US has been an integral part of every conflict in the Middle East since WW2.

Furthermore - the US and the European powers turn a blind eye to the genocide the Saudis are implementing in Yemen - where hundreds of thousands of people have been killed - and continue to be killed on a daily basis either through the conflict or famine caused by the conflict.

Yes - Hezbollah carry out acts of terror - Hezbollah are a Lebanon based organisation and Hezbollah haven't carried out a direct attack of any consequence on Israel in several years (although Hezbollah may have had knowledge of a failed rocket attack into Northern Israel from Lebanon by Palestinian militants in April. You seem to be mistaking Hezbollah for Hamas who are based in the Gaza Strip. It should be noted that Israel continues to occupy parts of South Lebanon that it annexed during the 2006 Israeli invasion of Lebanon. As late as 9 August the Israeli defence minister threatened to send Lebanon 'back to the stone age' and to 'erode every inch of Lebanon' - why - because a group of Hezbollah fighters set up some tents on the border between South Lebanon and the Israeli occupied (since 1967) Syrian Golan Heights.

Hamas also carry out acts of terror - but so do the Israeli state. In fact the Israeli state has been systematically expelling Palestinians from their homes and replacing them with Israeli settlers for decades. Since the beginning of 2022 the Israeli state has killed 399 Palestinians and injured almost 20,000 - in the same period 46 Israelis have been killed (most of whom were members of the IDF or Israeli settlers occupying Palestinian land - and the settlers are armed to the teeth by the Israeli state) - and about 400 injured (almost all Israeli settlers of land Palestinians had been expelled from). As late as the beginning of this month the IDF killed a teenage Palestinian boy in a pre-dawn raid on a Palestinian refugee camp - the youth was hit by a military vehicle, a soldier climbed out of the vehicle and while 18 year old was lying injured on the ground, the soldier shot him in the head. Later the same day Israeli settlers entered the Palestinian village of Burqa - when a group of unarmed youth confronted them, they opened fire, killing a 19 year-old and wounding several others.

 

[cjd]

I really like this thread which gives me info on what is happening in Ukraine and is ultimately seriously affecting the western World.

May I politely ask the two recent posters on here who are de-railing this thread for their own agenda (they know who they are)....to F**k off this thread and stayed F****D Off.....please.

 

[knocky1]

I really like this thread which gives me info on what is happening in Ukraine and is ultimately seriously affecting the western World.

May I politely ask the two recent posters on here who are de-railing this thread for their own agenda (they know who they are)....to F**k off this thread and stayed F****D Off.....please.

Carry on selecting your info of what is good and bad.
Sorry we notched it up a tad too geopolitically for you.