[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Sirnormangall]

Dimitry Utkin was on board too, the former security services neo nazi whose call sign is Wagner, and where name comes from. Utkin was the Wagner military commander.

Putin has tried to totally decapitate Wagner, its leader and military commander in one hit.

Just waiting for him to blame the West and operation complete.

Assuming Prigozhin is dead, it will probably be some time (years?) before we know who was really behind it.

Might have been Ukraine, for obvious reasons. Might have been Putin: to demonstrate his strength and to repay Prig’s treachery. Might be a deception and he’ll pop up somewhere else in a couple of months ( surely unlikely?).

Whatever, it’s surely not a scenario that Putin would have planned for in his SMO which seems to have been presented internally as a quick win and has been anything but. Surely this event shows further vulnerability that can only weaken his position in the minds of ordinary Russian citizens?

 

[Nobby]

Russia is also the largest country on earth, which has been buit over time (wars)

What is the matter with you?

Are you basically saying, in all the inaccurate tosh that you’re posting, that Ukraine should basically give up because Russia is so mighty?

They are (as my Ukrainian friend put it yesterday), thieves, murderers and terrorists.

In my view a mafia state, fear rules.

Do you want Ukraine to roll over? And then who is next, Moldova, Poland?

As I say, what is the matter with you?

 

[sparkie]

The 2nd world war was basically won on the eastern front. Yes, after France fell Britain survided the Blitz which was intended to to bring it to the peace table.
Hitler didn't want a war on 2 fronts, and that's effectively what happened when the USA joined in.
Yes, the USA, GB gave limited aid to Russia by arctic convoys, which sometimes came under attack by U boats, but was not that significant.
The Battle of Britain has been has been over played in the media, it was just considered as a Luftwaffe offensive in Germany.

This will educate you ( the full thread ) :



Way down this long thread is this tweet, worth highlighting:

 

[chickens]

This will educate you ( the full thread ) :



Way down this long thread is this tweet, worth highlighting:

I expect Russian soldiers will soon be equipped with slingshots and freshly mined uranium pebbles.

Until they run out of rubber for the slingshots.

 

[Brovion]

Yes. But so was the USA alliance in trying to install a pro western government. I was just making the point that the USSR were able to control the country longer.
As it turned out, it probably helped to break up the Soviet Union sooner. Afghanistan has been a grave stone for Empires, including the British at the hight of its power.

No one is denying that. Your point was that Russia has a long history of beating all who come against it, which as many people have pointed out, with examples, is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

The 2nd world war was basically won on the eastern front. Yes, after France fell Britain survided the Blitz which was intended to to bring it to the peace table.
Hitler didn't want a war on 2 fronts, and that's effectively what happened when the USA joined in.
Yes, the USA, GB gave limited aid to Russia by arctic convoys, which sometimes came under attack by U boats, but was not that significant.
The Battle of Britain has been has been over played in the media, it was just considered as a Luftwaffe offensive in Germany.

Christ on a bike.

you can’t invade over a body of water without air superiority, to say it was over played is quite frankly bollocks. once air super was achieved then a landing by sea and air would have taken place. One of the reasons russia hasnt succeeded in Ukraine is the total lack of air cover.
The provision of kit gave the russians enough of a buffer to move manufacturing to the east and build up stock for a counter attack. However Russian might was not the reason Napoleon and Hitler failed in Russia. They were beaten by the Russian winter, without the right supplies and the proper kit you are going to lose. If The Nazi’s had been one month ahead on the advance to Moscow it would have fallen.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

Russia is also the largest country on earth, which has been buit over time (wars)

Just set up your own thread to discuss this and stop filling this one with your crap.

 

[Happy Exile]

The 2nd world war was basically won on the eastern front. Yes, after France fell Britain survided the Blitz which was intended to to bring it to the peace table.
Hitler didn't want a war on 2 fronts, and that's effectively what happened when the USA joined in.
Yes, the USA, GB gave limited aid to Russia by arctic convoys, which sometimes came under attack by U boats, but was not that significant.
The Battle of Britain has been has been over played in the media, it was just considered as a Luftwaffe offensive in Germany.

The Battle of Britain hasn't been overplayed at all. Britain and the Empire were solo against the Nazi's at that point and reeling from Dunkirk and Norway - Russia didn't switch to the allied side until 1941. The Battle of Britain was a rejection of the Nazi attempt to force the British Government to negotiate peace and demonstrated that even without the USA or anyone else and with most of Europe occupied the fight would go on. That alone is significant regardless of whether the Battle of Britain had any strategic relevance in any planned invasion or not. The Germans were shown to be beatable, the RAF changed tactics for aerial defence that hadn't been altered much since WW1 (the Nazi's had had loads of practice in the Spanish Civil War and up until the Battle of Britain were way ahead) which had huge impact as the war progressed.

Germany at the time, and subsequently, didn't see the Battle as being as important as Britain, but that's a subjective view that doesn't hold water.

 

[beorhthelm]

Slightly off-topic.
What's happening with the International Space Station these days?

If memory serves, the only way to get there [and back] was via a Russian rocket - have missions ceased?
Or is there a space exploration pact that keeps this show on the road?

launches take off from Kazakstan, so keeps removed from politics a bit.

 

[GT49er]

The 2nd world war was basically won on the eastern front. Yes, after France fell Britain survided the Blitz which was intended to to bring it to the peace table.
Hitler didn't want a war on 2 fronts, and that's effectively what happened when the USA joined in.
Yes, the USA, GB gave limited aid to Russia by arctic convoys, which sometimes came under attack by U boats, but was not that significant.
The Battle of Britain has been has been over played in the media, it was just considered as a Luftwaffe offensive in Germany.

Apart from the fact that the US involvement was an important factor, which is universally agreed, I can't find a single thing in your post which isn't complete bollocks.

 

[peterward]

Assuming Prigozhin is dead, it will probably be some time (years?) before we know who was really behind it.

Might have been Ukraine, for obvious reasons. Might have been Putin: to demonstrate his strength and to repay Prig’s treachery. Might be a deception and he’ll pop up somewhere else in a couple of months ( surely unlikely?).

Whatever, it’s surely not a scenario that Putin would have planned for in his SMO which seems to have been presented internally as a quick win and has been anything but. Surely this event shows further vulnerability that can only weaken his position in the minds of ordinary Russian citizens?

It wasn't Ukraine imho. Multiple witness accounts of some form of missile, and 2 explosions...... second being aircraft.... for Ukraine to know all the people on aircraft, to get surface to Air missile into Russia and shoot down is beyond far fetched, though I won't be surprised if that's the "official" stated narrative.

2 months to the day of coup, the guy that shot others down is himself shot down.

Putin just waited, offered fake security guarantees he had no intention of honouring when Prigorzhin was strong and he weak, methodically disarmed Wagner gave their heavy weapons to his personal protection, Rosvardia troops, dispersed Wagner, ran attacks on Prigorzhin on state TV, then dished out retribution.

Prigorzhin is dead, he'll only pop up in hell.

 

[Icy Gull]

Just set up your own thread to discuss this and stop filling this one with your crap.

I know just the Mod to put an end to this

 

[Albion in the north]

Happy Independence Day to all Ukrainians.
More important now than ever.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Happy Independence Day to all Ukrainians.
More important now than ever.

Well said my friend. On a day where US Republican candidates were openly talking of ceding their homelands to the imperialist invaders, this day takes on even more significance.

And fellas ... really ... can you take the WW2 bollocks elsewhere?

 

[peterward]

Ukrainian independence day today.

And whilst NSC is universally pro Ukraine, I don't think there's been many wars in my lifetime with such clear lines of good v evil. With such inspiration and courage v such sickening atrocity and cowardice.

If you have 12 mins, Zelensky independence day address embodies that inspiration and courage in the face of such evil. What a war time leader.

 

[A1X]

It wasn't Ukraine imho. Multiple witness accounts of some form of missile, and 2 explosions...... second being aircraft.... for Ukraine to know all the people on aircraft, to get surface to Air missile into Russia and shoot down is beyond far fetched, though I won't be surprised if that's the "official" stated narrative.

It's also not in Ukraine's interest to take him out at this time IMHO, he is (or he was) much more of a threat to Putin than to Ukraine.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Ukrainian independence day today.

And whilst NSC is universally pro Ukraine, I don't think there's been many wars in my lifetime with such clear lines of good v evil. With such inspiration and courage v such sickening atrocity and cowardice.

If you have 12 mins, Zelensky independence day address embodies that inspiration and courage in the face of such evil. What a war time leader.

Thank you for posting. I will always have time to listen to such a great man and I urge everybody reading this to do likewise

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

It's also not in Ukraine's interest to take him out at this time IMHO, he is (or he was) much more of a threat to Putin than to Ukraine.

And if it was Ukraine, they need to secretly get people and weapons inside Russia, then presumably extract or hide them. They need to know the whereabouts of the plane and that he got on it.

Would Russians have been able to get to the wreckage and confirm the death of Prig so quickly had they not known it was going to happen? Then there are reports the internet has been turned off in parts of Belarus to stop Wagner plotting a response?

I just don't buy it was Ukraine at all. They have neither the means or the motive. Putin does.

 

[peterward]

And if it was Ukraine, they need to secretly get people and weapons inside Russia, then presumably extract or hide them. They need to know the whereabouts of the plane and that he got on it.

Would Russians have been able to get to the wreckage and confirm the death of Prig so quickly had they not known it was going to happen? Then there are reports the internet has been turned off in parts of Belarus to stop Wagner plotting a response?

I just don't buy it was Ukraine at all. They have neither the means or the motive. Putin does.

Lukashenko already publically claiming it was an accident (and not Ukraine or west), says all you need to know.