I'm not sure that's what it is. If Russia could hold on to the occupied territories, then this is simply populating them to make them part of Russia. If they can't, then it's not hard for Ukraine to send the occupants back to Russia.
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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
I'm not sure that's what it is. If Russia could hold on to the occupied territories, then this is simply populating them to make them part of Russia. If they can't, then it's not hard for Ukraine to send the occupants back to Russia.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,095
It's Donbas v2.0, or if you prefer, Crimea v2.0.
Long term planning to provide a reason in the future for Moscow to invade again, to 'protect the rights of Russian citizens'.
Remember... most of the Russian front line have guns at their backs...
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,095
I remember much earlier in the war, a report from the Royal United Services Institute, in which it suggested Russia was fighting on a number of fronts, but one axis that wasn't widely recognised in the west, was time.
As well as the near real-time of the invasion and the ground war, it is fighting on a timescale that is so long, that few people realise it is happening.
As well as the near real-time of the invasion and the ground war, it is fighting on a timescale that is so long, that few people realise it is happening.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,273
Its my wifes city. Mother in law with us is desperate to return "home" too.
What is definitely happening in Mariupol is there are large amounts of ethnic Russians including minority groups like Chechens, Tuvans, Mongols turning up in Mariupol because of salary offers.
Reported that Russia are offering lots of jobs based in Mariupol, with salaries in the region of 2500$ pm, which is anywhere between 5-8x (depending on skills) the normal rate that could be earned in Russia or Ukraine.
It is a form of ethnic cleansing, where they pay way over the odds to lure Russians to Mariupol to fully Russophile the city.
Family members saying there's literally loads of regional Russians turning up.
For Russia its paying OTT wages to ethnically cleanse.
Article a week or so ago, that says if Ukraine doesn't get Mariupol back fairly quickly, within 5 years it will be over 80% ethnic Russians.
Make no mistake, Russia is committing genocide, destroying and banning everything Ukrainain including language, literature and culture with co-ordinated forced Russification.
Behind the Lines: Russia’s Ethnic Cleansing
Russian forces are squeezing out locals and resettling Russian citizens in Ukraine’s occupied territories - a story from Mariupol.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,095
I'm so sorry to read that.Its my wifes city. Mother in law with us is desperate to return "home" too.
What is definitely happening in Mariupol is there are large amounts of ethnic Russians including minority groups like Chechens, Tuvans, Mongols turning up in Mariupol because of salary offers.
Reported that Russia are offering lots of jobs based in Mariupol, with salaries in the region of 2500$ pm, which is anywhere between 5-8x (depending on skills) the normal rate that could be earned in Russia or Ukraine.
It is a form of ethnic cleansing, where they pay way over the odds to lure Russians to Mariupol to fully Russophile the city.
Family members saying there's literally loads of regional Russians turning up because of the salary being offered.
For Russia its paying OTT wages to ethnically cleanse.
Article a week or so ago, that says if Ukraine doesn't get Mariupol back fairly quickly, within 5 years it will be over 80% ethnic Russians.
Make no mistake, Russia is committing genocide, destroying and banning everything Ukrainain including language, literature and culture with co-ordinated forced Russification.
Behind the Lines: Russia’s Ethnic Cleansing
Russian forces are squeezing out locals and resettling Russian citizens in Ukraine’s occupied territories - a story from Mariupol.cepa.org
It must be very difficult for your wife, and for you to see the creep of ethnic cleansing in her home city. I've been aware of the more widely published Russian attempts at ethnic cleansing and genocide (murder of local inhabitants, abduction of children), but not what you describe.
Have you considered communicating this to the BBC? It needs to reach a larger audience.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,273
No interest in speaking to any journos, though i believe a lot of journalistic organisations are aware of what's happening more generally.
Today I read an account on twitter if true) that in Enerhodar home of the big nuclear power plant, the Russians are stopping people or going into homes to find and destroy Ukrainian passports ad force them to apply for Russian.
What they are doing for sure in occupied territories (first hand info) is linking access to services like medical or pension etc to only Russian passport holders.
So there's many forms of forced russification/ethnic cleansing.
But it's not new, Stalin did it en masse, it's happened in Crimea before and again in 2014, it happened in baltics after WW2.
Its the same patterns repeating. It's what Russia does to try and subvert/colonise.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,095
You've hit the nail on the head.
It's what Russia does. Learned behaviour. Lessons learned from the past are repeated over and over again.
Putin loves to quote from history. He won't stop unless he is stopped. Even when he is losing his own war, he still doesn't stop.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,273
More good news! Ukraine just again hit the Chongar bridge in crimea.
It's one of the 2 main supply routes out of Crimea and into Ukraine and the its the most used Russian route that goes to Melitopol/ Zaporizhia front.
Only way left, unless fixed, is kherson direction, much longer route and in range of himars for most of it, once inside Ukraine.
Excellent attack on Russia logistics.
It's one of the 2 main supply routes out of Crimea and into Ukraine and the its the most used Russian route that goes to Melitopol/ Zaporizhia front.
Only way left, unless fixed, is kherson direction, much longer route and in range of himars for most of it, once inside Ukraine.
Excellent attack on Russia logistics.
Super Steve Earle
Well-known member
Klingons were apparently an exaggerated view of Russians. Turns out real Russians are actually far worse than Klingons.
Exactly this. 5-8x salary is such a carrot that certain groups of Russians (especially lower paid ethnics from the provinces) won't hesitate to move to Mariupol, and they'll ignore the bombed buildings as they are employed to rebuild anyway.Its my wifes city. Mother in law with us is desperate to return "home" too.
What is definitely happening in Mariupol is there are large amounts of ethnic Russians including minority groups like Chechens, Tuvans, Mongols turning up in Mariupol because of salary offers.
Reported that Russia are offering lots of jobs based in Mariupol, with salaries in the region of 2500$ pm, which is anywhere between 5-8x (depending on skills) the normal rate that could be earned in Russia or Ukraine.
It is a form of ethnic cleansing, where they pay way over the odds to lure Russians to Mariupol to fully Russophile the city.
Family members saying there's literally loads of regional Russians turning up.
For Russia its paying OTT wages to ethnically cleanse.
Article a week or so ago, that says if Ukraine doesn't get Mariupol back fairly quickly, within 5 years it will be over 80% ethnic Russians.
Make no mistake, Russia is committing genocide, destroying and banning everything Ukrainain including language, literature and culture with co-ordinated forced Russification.
Behind the Lines: Russia’s Ethnic Cleansing
Russian forces are squeezing out locals and resettling Russian citizens in Ukraine’s occupied territories - a story from Mariupol.
More than a year ago my wife's parents village, just north of Melitopol, had the Russia soldiers enforcing Russian curriculum in the village school. Our friend refused and resigned - a few days later, a knock at the door, a new village official and a guy with a Kalashnikov...and she had to go back
. On each floor of the school armed soldiers patrol to ensure Russian curriculum...the kids in there are aged 7-16. And this is a lucky village...few if any atrocities so far, but they are becoming Russified (passports, currency, TV, access to social programs etc).papachris
Well-known member
It's straight out of the former Soviet Union book. The baltic states all have significant Russian populations. Many of the natives were sent to siberia never to be seen again during the 50 year soviet occupation.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,272
- Thread starter
- #12,413
Remember that Ukraine warned that ports in the Black Sea and vessels entering and leaving them will be considered legitimate targets later this month....I think Ukraine have the ability and intention to cut the Kerch Bridge again and isolate Crimea from resupply...Twitter posts suggest already there is limited vehicle fuel on sale in Crimea. Ukraine is cutting off Crimea and making it untenable.
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Reading todays posts on this thread reminds me again that we (aka...me!) need to keep a balanced view.
LOTS of shit from Russia has already happened, it's done: fast initial advances in the south and east, Mariupol, nuclear station, Kherson dam etc etc. Russification has followed because they currently control those areas.
BUT daily news favours Ukraine IMO: small advances, pinpoint attacks on Russian supplies and infrastructure, frequent attacks on Crimea and their fleet.
It feels slow, but Russia is on the back foot. If allies stay strong with supplies then Ukraine can slowly regain the losses.
(this post is aimed at myself primarily).
LOTS of shit from Russia has already happened, it's done: fast initial advances in the south and east, Mariupol, nuclear station, Kherson dam etc etc. Russification has followed because they currently control those areas.
BUT daily news favours Ukraine IMO: small advances, pinpoint attacks on Russian supplies and infrastructure, frequent attacks on Crimea and their fleet.
It feels slow, but Russia is on the back foot. If allies stay strong with supplies then Ukraine can slowly regain the losses.
(this post is aimed at myself primarily).
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,095
Here's Robert Fox, Defence Editor of the Standard from 11 days ago:
Summary:
Ukraine is cutting off Crimea, so that Russians will leave. Insurgency will follow.
Peace will look like a demilitarised zone in the east of the Donbas. This does not equate to victory for Putin.
Arab commentary is turning away from Russia.
Peace talks are taking place, with Norway and Saudi leading the way.
Rebuilding Ukraine will cost billions, (and that's just clearing the landmines) but could be helped by the Norwegian and Saudi sovereign wealth funds.
China is more concerned about the war than many realise. It could play a leading role in the peace.
Rather than have a heavily armed country on the margin, Ukraine should be allowed accession to NATO.
Summary:
Ukraine is cutting off Crimea, so that Russians will leave. Insurgency will follow.
Peace will look like a demilitarised zone in the east of the Donbas. This does not equate to victory for Putin.
Arab commentary is turning away from Russia.
Peace talks are taking place, with Norway and Saudi leading the way.
Rebuilding Ukraine will cost billions, (and that's just clearing the landmines) but could be helped by the Norwegian and Saudi sovereign wealth funds.
China is more concerned about the war than many realise. It could play a leading role in the peace.
Rather than have a heavily armed country on the margin, Ukraine should be allowed accession to NATO.
driddles
Well-known member
Looks like a fire burning below as well... did they hit the gas (assumed) pipeline in the photo as well?
It's an interesting video... I'm halfway through !
The
The Replies to the first tweet are good:
- Russia makes lots of ground in south and east during early weeks of invasion
- allied supply of weaponry and belief in Ukraine's ability to fight the invasion are are slow...
- allows Russia to dig in with deep levels of fortification
- Ukraine finally has sufficient weaponry (and trained troops) to start a counteroffensive...
- they make 'slow' progress as they do not have air superiority and Russia has multiple supply line options
- Ukraine keeps plugging away intelligently...
- and I hope, think,
, 
we'll see something that looks like a breakthrough soon.
It's that horrible word 'slow' isn't it - it has such negative connotations. But considering their starting point, I think most of us will agree that Ukraine is making fantastic progress
Worrying
Positive
The Replies to the first tweet are good:
- Russia makes lots of ground in south and east during early weeks of invasion
- allied supply of weaponry and belief in Ukraine's ability to fight the invasion are are slow...
- allows Russia to dig in with deep levels of fortification
- Ukraine finally has sufficient weaponry (and trained troops) to start a counteroffensive...
- they make 'slow' progress as they do not have air superiority and Russia has multiple supply line options
- Ukraine keeps plugging away intelligently...
- and I hope, think,
, we'll see something that looks like a breakthrough soon.It's that horrible word 'slow' isn't it - it has such negative connotations. But considering their starting point, I think most of us will agree that Ukraine is making fantastic progress